歐博思 Posted October 13, 2015 at 05:07 PM Report Posted October 13, 2015 at 05:07 PM http://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Expressing_%22and%22_with_%22he%22_(advanced) Could all of these 和 be replaced by 并?Examples from link: 政府每年都会维护和修理这些建筑 。 我们需要进一步地了解和交流。 他十八岁的时候就管理和运营着一家公司。 这种材料可以无限地回收和利用。 预防和治理污染需要所有人共同的努力。 Quote
Guest123 Posted October 14, 2015 at 05:27 AM Report Posted October 14, 2015 at 05:27 AM 和 and 并 can both be translated "and", but their meaning is slightly different. While 和 means simple "and“ used in enumeration, 并(且)means "moreover". So when you use 并 you are not simply saying doing this and that, but doing this and in addition, and then, also doing that. When you use 和, verbs are equal, when you use 并且, the action of the second verb comes after, in addition to the first one. The usage would depend on what you want to say. For ex.: if you say 政府 每年 都 会 维护 和 修理 这些 建筑, this means that governement is doing both things: protecting and repairing. But if you say 政府 每年 都 会 维护 并 修理 这些 建筑, you are saying that governement will protect these buildings, and in addition will repair them. Personaly I feel that 并 in these cases would sound more formal, like in text from newpaper, and 和 would me more colloquial. Quote
Messidor Posted October 14, 2015 at 05:27 AM Report Posted October 14, 2015 at 05:27 AM Sound slightly strange to me. There's no obvious progressive relationship between the two words connected by 和. 维护和(/并)修缮,了解和交流,管理和运营,回收(和)利用,预防和治理,they are the usages commonly seen on TV & newspapers Quote
Vildhjerp Posted October 14, 2015 at 05:40 AM Report Posted October 14, 2015 at 05:40 AM According to the CGW page explaining how verbs are combined using 并(且): "Rarely will a bare verb (rather than a verb phrase) appear both before and after 并且. Where this is the case the sentence will normally take the tone of an imperative, instructing someone to do something." Grammatically, if the two verbs at hand are being directed towards the same indirect object (or if there is no indirect object), they can be immediately linked up using 和. But if the two verbs each possess their own indirect object and each form their own verb phrase, then 和 cannot be used, and 并(且) needs to be used instead. Quote
Guest123 Posted October 14, 2015 at 06:27 AM Report Posted October 14, 2015 at 06:27 AM Yes, that's true, if you want to use 并 in these sentnces, you should rearrange a little bit their structure. It would be something like this: 政府会维护这些建筑并修理它。 Quote
歐博思 Posted October 14, 2015 at 01:04 PM Author Report Posted October 14, 2015 at 01:04 PM Edited my 1st post's character spacing to normal for greater readability. This 和 "only for nouns" usage was hammered into me from the start, and I feel like with everyone's help here that it's sort of my 'missing piece' in a way. Before, I hadn't heard much spoken usage of 并, but I also felt that rewording the phrase to not need some sort of 'missing piece' connector such as 和 also never felt right. So, for example, would the following sentence be ok if there's no clear sequence between the two events, as in tomorrow is just a very lazy day and those are the only two things to do and the order doesn't matter: 我明天打算去跑步和交作业。 (edit: if my example sentence is okay, I just realized they'd both be objects of the verb 打算, so still acting as nouns. It'd be more the doubled verbs targeting a single object that'd been giving me mental blocks and had me fumbling in the dark towards 并, if that makes sense) Or what about a sentence with the English meaning: I want to paint and move this table 我想把桌子上漆和搬走。 Again, not necessarily in a certain sequence. Quote
Guest123 Posted October 14, 2015 at 01:38 PM Report Posted October 14, 2015 at 01:38 PM so still acting as nouns Well no, they are not acting as nouns, but like objets. Do not confuse parts of speach (verb, noun...) and parts of sentence (object, subjetc...). Here 和 is OK because there is the same subject 我, but a chinese speaker wouldn't necessarily say it this way. Some things, even if they are grammatically correct, are not always the way people usually speak. Chinese do not use so often 和 as english use "and". So it's quite natural that one could feel uncertain about it. Quote
歐博思 Posted October 14, 2015 at 03:09 PM Author Report Posted October 14, 2015 at 03:09 PM Some things, even if they are grammatically correct, are not always the way people usually speak. Chinese do not use so often 和 as english use "and". So it's quite natural that one could feel uncertain about it. This, combined with 和 being hammered in as for "nouns only", always had me trying to rephrase things before. It's mentioned above that this verbal type usage of 和 is seen on news programs frequently, and they're supposed to speak pretty standard language. Quote
歐博思 Posted October 16, 2015 at 07:15 AM Author Report Posted October 16, 2015 at 07:15 AM Wow I've clearly not been watching news enough in Chinese. Just started watching CCTV news online and have already seen my questioned character and it's grammar used quite a few times in just 5 minutes. Quote
歐博思 Posted October 16, 2015 at 12:59 PM Author Report Posted October 16, 2015 at 12:59 PM Lifted from Chinese Grammar Wiki's 并 page: 我们需要的是有丰富的工作经验并且懂得团队合作的员工 What we need is an employee with rich work experience and also an understanding of teamwork. With有丰富的工作经验modifying员工,and 懂得团队合作also modifying员工,could 和 also be substituted here (or even could the sentence be reworded with 既...又...?) If so, what difference would that make to the feeling of the sentence and how might it affect the English translation? Quote
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