How to shift from 普通话 to 國語

[jobm]

Hello everyone. I would just like if anyone of you is proficient in both Standard Mainland and Taiwanese varieties of Mandarin? I have studied in Dalian for one year, thus, I am much more used to hearing Northern Mandarin or 普通话 than to Southern-accented or Taiwanese Mandarin. I might go to Taiwan and I am worried whether should I learn their variety or stick with my 北方-ish accent. Do you have any tips on how to be used to Taiwanese Mandarin? Any podcasts, books, or such?

P.S. I am also quite familiar with 繁體字 and I also study some 繁体字 every now and then.

Thank you very much~

[anonymoose]

Unless you've learned exceedingly well, I guess your Mandarin is just laowai Mandarin, which is equally applicable in the northeast and Taiwan.

Personally if your Mandarin is good enough, I wouldn't have thought you'd need to go to any special lengths to specifically learn Taiwan Mandarin.

[Demonic_Duck]

I have studied in Dalian for one year, thus, I am much more used to hearing Northern Mandarin or 普通话 than to Southern-accented or Taiwanese Mandarin.

I might be parsing your sentence incorrectly, but it seems that you're equating Northern Mandarin with 普通话 (questionable) and Southern-accented Mandarin with Taiwanese Mandarin (incorrect).

 

普通话 is a standard of Mandarin that few people speak in their daily lives. Even 北京话 differs somewhat from the standard. Meanwhile, "Northern Mandarin" I think typically refers to 北方方言, which is broader in scope (but not quite as broad as "Mandarin" as a whole, which includes some southern dialects which are barely mutually intelligible).

 

Taiwanese Mandarin refers specifically to Mandarin spoken in Taiwan. It has similarities with some forms of Mandarin spoken down south, but it isn't identical.

 

I don't think there's any need to specifically learn how to speak Taiwanese Mandarin. If you're understood fine in Dalian, you'll almost certainly be understood fine in Taiwan, too. However, it might be good to get some listening practice, in which case just find some films or TV shows you like the look of and start from there.

 

Edit: I also don't think it's strictly correct to differentiate 普通话 and 国语 as if they're different standards. 中国大陆普通话 is different from 台湾国语; however, “国语” on its own is also used more broadly (by Taiwanese, mainlanders and HKers alike) to refer to any reasonably standard variety of Mandarin or standard written Chinese.

[jobm]

Oh, I do not mean that. 

 

I mean, my ears got trained in understanding 1. Northern-accented Mandarin and 2. Standard Mainland Chinese (the one used by CCTV newscasters). Now, I find it a little bit understanding 1. Southern-accented Mandarin and 2. Taiwanese Mandarin.

[OneEye]

You'll adapt to the accent pretty quickly, no reason to worry too much about it. They'll have no problem understanding you if your Chinese is decent, and you'll catch up quickly enough to their accent too. Watch a few Taiwanese TV shows (康熙來了 if you like talk shows, any number of dramas if that's your thing) or movies (那些年，我們一起追的女孩 is fun) and you'll be fine. You own accent will probably shift a bit if you stay there long enough and imitate what you hear, but there's probably no need to purposefully change it.

[somethingfunny]

Can someone explain the difference between 普通话 and 国语?  I thought the former was used in order to stress how standard the language should be, where as the second one was essentially interchangeable with 中文 and 汉语.  I don't hear 国语 much and the only two times that come to mind at the moment are a student I once had who would jokingly shout out "你讲国语吧" in my classes, and people in Hong Kong talking about 'mainland' Chinese.

[歐博思]

 

Unless you've learned exceedingly well, I guess your Mandarin is just laowai Mandarin, which is equally applicable in the northeast and Taiwan.

話粗理不粗

 

sugoideas.com has a pretty good tv selection

[jobm]

I have heard of that 康熙來了

I am thinking if I could browse some Chinese-learning books used in Taiwan. I remember one of my Chinese professors told me, "Do you really use 方便面 in Mainland?"

Do you know any podcasts from Taiwan?

From what I have heard, when language policy makers were drafting what variety should be the standard, one of those were 國語 which was adopted by Taiwan and the other one is 普通话 which is now used in Mainland China. Though they are similar, but sometimes you could fine differences in tones and in other areas (like yan2jiu1 in 普通话 but yan2jiu4 in 國語). Are there published books on this? I would just like to remember these subtle differences.But, I also have heard that 國語 also means Mandarin Chinese in a broader sense (like 国语版) and this term is also used in Japanese and Korean to mean the standard variety of their language.

[Hofmann]

There is a book ISBN 9571152523.

[jobm]

Thank you, Hofmann~

[ouyangjun]

In regards to 国语 and 普通话... I've never thought of 国语 being specific to Taiwan, and the above is the first I've heard of a suggestion to this differentiation. I've been with government officers who have said 国语 in reference to my mandarin, so I don't really associate 国语 with Taiwan at all. Not sure if the the term has taken on more meaning over the years or not...

[somethingfunny]

My confusion exactly, I've heard mainlanders use the term with absolutely no relation to Taiwan at all.

[Guest realmayo]

I've never thought of 国语 being specific to Taiwan

 

As I understand it, 国语 in Taiwan is the standard language; the standard language in the PRC is called 普通话.

 

In the PRC, does 国语 mean 普通话, or is it generic 'Chinese' like 中文 and 汉语?

 

中文 and 汉语 seem to have PRC associations to at least some people in Taiwan. So people there seem to use the word 国语 all the time.

 

 

I was told that some of the differences between the PRC standard and the TW standard is that TW retains a little more of the pronunciations that were common to government officials and other educated people in Beijing pre-1945.

[Hofmann]

The national language(s) used to be called 國語 on both sides. Calling it 普通話 is a mainland thing.

[Guest realmayo]

So do you reckon mainlanders use the term 国语 the same as they would use the term 普通话? Or does it have a different nuance?

[Hofmann]

Depends. Some of them might use 國語 to refer to the Taiwanese standard, some to the national language of the PRC, some to any variety of Mandarin, and some to any national language.

[陳德聰]

To be fair, I have difficulty understanding colloquial Taiwanese accented Mandarin sometimes. I don't find it similar to the typical Southern accents I am used to, and actually feel more comfortable with the Northern accent than I do with the Taiwanese one..

[Guest realmayo]

Some of them might use 國語 to refer to the Taiwanese standard, some to the national language of the PRC, some to any variety of Mandarin, and some to any national language.

 

Okay, in that case it has lost to a large extent on the mainland the meaning that it still has in Taiwan. My hunch was that in the PRC the term 普通话 puts more emphasis on 'the standard' than does 国语 (in the PRC also).

[jobm]

 

 

was told that some of the differences between the PRC standard and the TW standard is that TW retains a little more of the pronunciations that were common to government officials and other educated people in Beijing pre-1945.

 

This is also what I know. 

 

 

 

To be fair, I have difficulty understanding colloquial Taiwanese accented Mandarin sometimes. I don't find it similar to the typical Southern accents I am used to, and actually feel more comfortable with the Northern accent than I do with the Taiwanese one..

 

Same experience that I find it hard to understand Taiwanese accents.. So I am just asking guys if anyone of you have tried shifting from one standard variety of Mandarin to another, how do you diversify your listening, if do you know some books or podcasts etc, or, do you just advice to stick to one variety....    

 

P.S. Other people also use 华语 to call Mandarin

 

I think this wikipedia link will clarify all our confusions. https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%8F%BE%E4%BB%A3%E6%A8%99%E6%BA%96%E6%BC%A2%E8%AA%9E

 

From wikipedia: 

 

其称呼与定义因地而异，中国大陆称为「普通話」，臺灣稱為「國語」，港澳地區前述兩者通用，在东南亚與漢語社群以外地區則稱為「華語」。

 

因地域的不同，中国大陆的「普通話」、臺灣的「國語」与东南亚地区的「华语」在語音與詞彙上存在一些差別，不过在正式的書寫語法上仍相對統一。現代標準漢語在世界各地也出現了许多的腔調變體，如台湾国語（臺式國語，受台語音調影響）和新馬華語（受閩粵及馬來語、英语影響）等；而身為漢語起源地的中國大陸内部更出现了更多腔調變體，衍生出了各种带有地方特色的「地方普通話」。

 

So,

Putonghua = Mainland China 

Guoyu = Taiwan 

Putonghua and Guoyu used interchangeably = Hong Kong and Macau

Huayu = in other Chinese-speaking areas 

 

"Because they are situated in different areas, the standard in Mainland, Taiwan, and in Southeast Asia have differences in phonology and vocabulary, but similar in their formal written form." 

[陳德聰]

To be clear, I find the Taiwanese standard and the Mainland standard to be similar enough that I have no issues except of the occasional terminology difference. The Taiwanese accent I find difficult is the colloquial one, i.e. not the one that shows up on Taiwanese radio or news.