rtf Posted October 22, 2015 at 05:18 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 05:18 AM Hello,everyone! Please,did I interpret the two correctly? 我跟姐姐一样喜欢唱歌 - 'I,like my sister, love singing' 我跟姐姐一样地喜欢唱歌 - 'My sister and I equally love singing' Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vildhjerp Posted October 22, 2015 at 05:51 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 05:51 AM In the first sentence, the 一样 specifies that both you and your sister enjoy singing to the same exact extent. With that said, the English translation you've provided briefly glosses over the fact that your sister also likes singing, almost as if it were an afterthought. Sure, your sister enjoys singing just like you do, but it's totally possible that she enjoys it more than you. Or maybe you enjoy it more than her. All we can tell based on the English translation is that you both don't hate it, and that's about it. There's no actual comparison being made between the two of you. The 一样 highlights that when your love for singing is compared to your sister's, those measurements are pretty much identical. Not only do you both enjoy singing, but each of you enjoys it just as much as the other. This equality is made very clear in the Chinese sentence. I would instead translate 我跟姐姐一样喜欢唱歌 as "I enjoy singing just as much as my sister." Or, maybe to make the comparison more mutual, "My sister and I enjoy singing just as much as each other." As for 一样地, I've never seen this used before, so I'll leave that explanation up to somebody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanZhiYun Posted October 22, 2015 at 06:42 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 06:42 AM When you use 地 to make a phrase an adverbial phrase, it's not like you can put it anywhere you want. There are certain rules whether 必须用地，不能用地，用不用都可以, that's the 3 cases. I am pretty sure you can not use it in this case, aka you don't need to say 一样地。Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted October 22, 2015 at 06:49 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 06:49 AM Rtf, where did you find these sentences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtf Posted October 22, 2015 at 08:51 AM Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 08:51 AM @roddy: in my manual.Something wrong with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted October 22, 2015 at 09:06 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 09:06 AM Tell us more about this manual. It'd also be useful to know how and why you're learning Chinese (sorry if you've already posted that and I haven't seen it). I've never seen 一样地 used like that, and a lot of your questions make me think you're learning from some old grammar-translation style book or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiao Kui Posted October 22, 2015 at 09:27 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 09:27 AM why do i prefer "我喜欢唱歌，跟姐姐一样。” ? it sounds like more natural usage to me, but perhaps it's just my laowai imagination... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flickserve Posted October 22, 2015 at 09:54 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 09:54 AM Tell us more about this manual. It'd also be useful to know how and why you're learning Chinese (sorry if you've already posted that and I haven't seen it). I've never seen 一样地 used like that, and a lot of your questions make me think you're learning from some old grammar-translation style book or something. I am curious to know if it comes from a book. I like knowing about slightly older style ways of expressions.Roddy, I found some example sentences here of 一样地 but I am not expert enough to know whether it can be used in the OP's original sentence. http://www.ichacha.net/ why do i prefer "我喜欢唱歌，跟姐姐一样。” ? it sounds like more natural usage to me, but perhaps it's just my laowai imagination... I did ask my daughter who is much more experienced in Mandarin compared to and yours it not so natural to her. She also did say "我跟姐姐一样地喜欢唱歌" doesn't make sense to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtf Posted October 22, 2015 at 10:34 AM Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 10:34 AM @roddy: there`s a lot of things we`ve never seen even in our mother tongues,and you know it as well as I do,but it` doesn`t really mean they`re wrong or doesn`t exist,right? As for my manual (A.Karapetyanz (proffessor,PhD, sinologist ) and (his Chinese wife,teacher of Chinese) Tan Aoshuan,'New Practical Course of Chinese' in 2 volumes,2004),I`ve chosen it from eight similar books despite the fact that it`s in a foreign language (that I happen to`ve studied),because: 1.One of the authors is a learned Chinese native,the other – a famous sinologist. 2.All material on 2 CDs is read by natives 3.The authors` approach is not only to present a set of expressions in common use (as many learners would prefer),but to develop in learners a deep understanding of how Chinese people themselves see their own language,i.e. from the inside.They,for instance,take one sentence and give all possible collocations a native would use and understand,showing differences in meaning and in use and where the scope of the flexibility of the language is.This complex approach is good for people like myself,people who know a number of foreign languages,so as to be able to compare things between the languages we know,i.e. to have the whole picture and to be able to analyse how this or that feature of it is (not) shared among the rest,rather than to learn it bit by bit.The reason I ask questions here on the forum is that sometimes I just can`t get my head around some of the sentences or structures,but thanks to some people`s help I`m doing just fine.And I`m studying Chinese not only to communicate but also to read classical literature in the future.And like Flickserve noted,I also 'like knowing about slightly older style ways of expressions',no matter if they`re frequently used or not,or whether someone knows them or not. Roddy,I`ve looked through almost all your posts,and I seem to be the only person you ask questions like this on this forum,so what woud the reason be for that,I wonder? And even if I was using 'some old grammar-translation style book or something', what would happen then? Well,I`ve used almost half of my break to answer your questions,and I hope I`ll be just getting answers in threads that I create after this,as that`s what a forum is all about,isn`t it? Good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edelweis Posted October 22, 2015 at 10:55 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 10:55 AM Roddy,I`ve looked through almost all your posts,All 16 thousand of them? Extremely impressive. I hope I`ll be just getting answers in threads that I create after this,as that`s what a forum is all about,isn`t it? This forum has an "ignore" function. But you might not need to use it anyway - if you have no interest in answering other people's questions, people might lose interest in answering yours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted October 22, 2015 at 11:12 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 11:12 AM Almost all? That's a lot of reading. ;-) Understanding why and how people are learning means you can offer better advice - one person needs to read academic papers, the other is going to move to China. One person lives in Siberia and has the Internet for 15 minutes a day, the other is studying in Beijing. Some people are 13, some are 76. Some are advanced, some are.... you get the idea... It's also interesting and it means people get to know each other. The site isn't just about quick answers to quick questions, it's about sharing experiences and following each other's progress. I'd like to think it's a community people feel a part of, not a reference book people use for five minutes and then put back on the shelf. You might like to read through this and this and these and post if you find anything interesting. Forums are "about" what the people using them make them about. If you were using some old grammar-translation text - you probably wouldn't have any audio. You'd be learning much more written than spoken Chinese. It could easily be a few decades out of date. I'd suggest you get something more modern. Unless you live in Siberia ;-) I don't know anything about your textbook, but I did a search and found someone - you? - recently saying on another forum it has typos and discrepancies. There may be better options for you, and if you want to post asking for recommendations, I'm sure you'll get some help. Hope that helps, and I hope you have some of your break left. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted October 22, 2015 at 11:18 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 11:18 AM A forum is a place of discussion and exchange of ideas. Just to ask questions and expect answers with out any more discussion is not what usually happens. The idea is also that others may learn from the questions you ask and the answers people give. Some questions are simple yes/no, correct/incorrect questions, but many more are subjective and have more than one answer. One reason people ask for more details is because context means so much when it comes to understanding the more complex of chinese sentences and ideas. I hope this doesn't put you off posting, some of your questions have been very interesting and informative, just remember its not so black and white, there will be grey areas and this starts the discussions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdefg Posted October 22, 2015 at 11:20 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 11:20 AM rtf -- Several of us have wondered about your approach to learning Chinese and have asked about it in your previous threads. Until now, I don't recall seeing any answers. It has been as though it is some sort of secret project. A dialogue is usually the best way to get help. Otherwise, after a time it begins to feel mechanical, as though we are just impersonal "vending machines" and as such, are being exploited. I, for one, stopped trying to answer your questions some time ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest realmayo Posted October 22, 2015 at 11:44 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 11:44 AM I initially thought rtf was the person in his/her photo, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybcvlxivscw.... Maybe he/she is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flickserve Posted October 22, 2015 at 12:00 PM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 12:00 PM The reason I ask questions here on the forum is that sometimes I just can`t get my head around some of the sentences or structures,but thanks to some people`s help I`m doing just fine.And I`m studying Chinese not only to communicate but also to read classical literature in the future.And like Flickserve noted,I also 'like [/size][/font]knowing about slightly older style ways of expressions',no matter if they`re frequently used or not,or whether someone knows them or not. Roddy,I`ve looked through almost all your posts,and I seem to be the only person you ask questions like this on this forum,so what woud the reason be for that,I wonder? And even if I was using 'some old grammar-translation style book or something', what would happen then? Well,I`ve used almost half of my break to answer your questions,and I hope I`ll be just getting answers in threads that I create after this,as that`s what a forum is all about,isn`t it? Good luck! To be honest, if you give a little more background to your problem, it makes people more interested and you are more likely to get an answer. I wasn't even going to post to this thread until Roddy put some words in and that got me interested in adding something. BTW, do put a space after your punctuation because it helps me read what you wrote. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtf Posted October 22, 2015 at 12:10 PM Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 12:10 PM @abcdefg: will it disappoint you guys if I say that,of course,it`s no secret project,and my approach is very simple: I take quite a lot of time choosing a good manual and then I work on it from cover to cover doing every single exercise to have a general picture,to learn the basic grammar and to get the feel of the language as much as possible.Then I work with video (for the most part) and audio in order to understand spoken word better.After that I intensively communicate with a tutor (a native) one on one for about half a year to improve my abilities to express myself in the language.Then I normally visit the country and live there for about a year or two.And coming back home I watch movies,news,radios,communicate with new friends etc,i.e. use the language as a tool. Well,that`s my approach.To speak the truth I had no idea that a forum like this is not strictly for asking questions and discussing language issues,but is something else.And I wouldn`t call it exploiting,I`d call it asking for help. Sorry if I`ve hurt someone`s feelings,but I`m not used to attracting too much attention to myself,I need time to learn.That`s why we live,don`t we? @realmayo: I have the impression that all you do is try to find something bad about me.What else can I say if there`s always someone in my thread behind my back referring to me as 'he/she' and try to discredit me? You mean it`s the kind of friendliness I`ve been told here about? If it`s necessary (for a man) to do stuff like this (which we,girls,can afford sometimes),it`s normally done through private messages.Correct me if I`m wrong. Well, it seems I have to spend more time justifying myself here than studying,and that thanks to you,mostly.So,mayby it`ll be better for me to look for something else,is that where you`re getting at? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted October 22, 2015 at 12:26 PM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 12:26 PM Now THAT was interesting. How would you like to write up a long post giving more detail and telling us all about the different languages you've learned? Don't mind realmayo, he's actually very friendly. Also quite funny, once he made me laugh so hard I sprayed beer all over a London pub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted October 22, 2015 at 12:27 PM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 12:27 PM I don't think you should be looking for somewhere else, but you should understand that this not just a quick one stop answer service. it is a friendly place and so we like to chat and discuss the joys and woes of learning chinese. Try and think of it like a big cafe where we all drop in and out and talk and help each other. The he/she thing is because unless you have explicitly said you are male or female it is not possible to tell from usernames and/or avatars so out of politeness and not wishing to upset anyone this ambiguous method is used. I hope you don't take all this in a bad way, i think we are all just interested in why, how and where you are studying because of the nature of your questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted October 22, 2015 at 12:29 PM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 12:29 PM THOSE AREN'T HER YOUTUBE VIDEOS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted October 22, 2015 at 12:31 PM Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 at 12:31 PM Oh sorry it looks like her i will go and sit in the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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