Some advice for beginners

[wushijiao]

When he was a kid, the great basketball player Magic Johnson used to wake up before dawn in the cold Michigan mornings to go out to the basketball courts to shovel snow. After shoveling, he’d play both before school and after. Charles Barkley, similarly, used to spend an hour a day jumping over a four-foot high fence. Over and back, over and back, until his legs were tremendously strong and he could out rebound anyone. Both of these guys later went on to become NBA legends. Of course, they both had natural talent and were born a bit on the tall side, to say the least. But more than that, their secret to success was “Conan the Barbarian”-like determination and a love for the game.

When studying Chinese, if you just want to travel around and simply just get by, I’d recommend buying a set of tapes and the Lonely Planet Phrasebook. My old Canadian drinkin’ buddy traveled all around China knowing less than 30 words, but he had the LP phrasebook. He’d point to something he wanted to say in English, and then the Chinese person could read the Chinese characters, and my friend got his meaning across.

But if you want more, if you want to have conversation, if you want to eventually read a bit or become fluent, then like Magic and Charles, you’ll have to put in a tremendous amounts of work and develop a love for the process itself.

According to a random survey I found on the Internet, people considered Chinese to be the hardest language in the world. There’s no doubt, it’s hard and will take a lot of work. So the most important thing to keep in mind is that you can learn it as long as you develop a passion for it. I’ll first go over some of the general principles and then get into some techniques for learning.

General Principles

1) Find the Joy in Learning Chinese. Like people who become great athletes or accomplished musicians, you will have to spend thousands or hours studying and practicing. Many people give up. I think you will only be able to get through the frustrating initial phase if you are able to find the joy in learning the Chinese. I can’t stress this enough. Other posters have mentioned that the long hours of studying became worth it once they could understand even just a bit a dialogue from a Chinese movie. For some, inspiration might come from being able to understand a taijiquan or kung-fu teacher in Chinese. For me, because I’m a political junkie, it was being able to understand some local Beijingers explain their views about the soon-to-be Iraq War II in 2003. You can always read a synopsis of public opinion of China in the New York Times or some other newspaper, but it’s another thing to hear about public opinion from a Chinese person in Chinese while eating grilled mantou and yangrou chuanrs (goat meat sticks). In other words, because studying Chinese takes so much time, if you are able to find enjoy the process of learning itself, then your odds of success will increase.

Personally, I think China will experience a political opening up sometime in the next 5-20 years. When this happens, I predict that 10 years later popular culture will flourish like never before. Movies, TV, pop music, the news media will go through a brilliant renaissance that will rival anything in China’s past. Surely I’ll want to be able to appreciate and understand Chinese culture when this happens.

2) Read about the language itself. Chinese is unlike any European language. You will have to think about the language in a different way. That’s why I think it’s a good idea to read about the language on www.zhongwen.com . Also, on this site there are many people who have generously contributed solid advice. Names like Quest, Roddy, Altair, Gato and others come to mind. Go through a lot of the old posts and look for knowledge about the language itself.

3) Wait for the “click”. “I’m an idiot” “I don’t get it”. You’ll probably say this to yourself many times when first starting to learn a language. Don’t worry. Everybody feels this way. At some point if you keep studying diligently you’ll probably experience a “click” in your mind. All of a sudden all the confusion will kind of go away and things will become crystal clear.

When studying Chinese, this phenomenon is even more dramatic. I sometimes think that learning Chinese is like riding one of those old, white, rickety, wooden rollercoasters. You get in the rollercoaster car, and then you start off very slowly. You go up and up, climbing at a very slow pace. Then you have a moment at the top when time seems to stand still. Then in ecstasy you fly downwards with exhilaration, going over small hills that seem like nothing compared to the tall initial ascent. In your first year you have to learn tones, pinyin, radicals, characters, word order, how characters compose words…etc. All of this is very difficult and very new. In Spanish, in contrast, in the first year lots of the vocabulary like patio, Universidad, gracias ,loco, yo quiero,…etc, is known to most Americans. The difficulties start in the second or third year when you have to memorize gigantic verb charts. With Chinese, it seems, many of the difficulties smack you right in your bruised face in Day One. But if you keep working hard and don’t give up, you’ll get over that original slow uphill journey and make it to the exhilaration of actually being able to communicate with real Chinese people or being able to understand a bit of popular Chinese media. After the first year, you’ll continue to have problems in learning Chinese. But like the rollercoaster, none of the problems later on will be as dramatic and nerve-racking as the first initial ascent.

Techniques

1) Listen to the basics of the language until it becomes automatic. When I first started, I listened to the pronunciations of the pinyin and tones a million times, in the car, at home, when I had insomnia. Listen to it as many times as it takes until you know how every possible pinyin pronunciation.

2) Find good starter’s materials. Some people have recommended Pimsueler (perhaps someone could recommend other starter’s material?) Be sure that the material focuses on listening and speaking. It would also be ideal if it focused on practical dialogues.

3) Learn the radicals. Almost 90% of characters are composed of a radical along with a pronunciation component. The radical tells you something about the meaning of the character (is it a metal?, does it refers to something you do with your hand?, does it refers to water?, does it refer to a dragon?…etc) The pronunciation part gives you a rough idea about how the word sounds. For example, look at the following characters and see if you can tell which part they have in common. 饱, 抱, 刨, 跑, 炮. Well, it’s the 包 part. As the pronunciation component 包 tells you that it is pronounced either “bao” or “pao”. You’ll notice that the initial consonant has sometimes changed, which is due to the long evolution of the spoken language. The non-包 parts in the above example are the radicals, which give you info as to what the character is about. The first one, for example, is 饱 (bao3, to be full) Thus, the common question, “你吃饱了, 没?” Are you full? In this case, the radical tells you that this “bao” refers to food.

In any case, there are a lot of radicals. You probably don’t need to memorize all of them at the start, but I’d memorize the 30 or 40 most important ones. Then on a Friday night, while your friends are all going out on the town to party and find some sweet ladies or handsome fellas, be a geek and sit at home and spend a few hours practicing looking up unknown characters in the dictionary by identifying the radical. After a few months of practice looking up unknown characters you’ll become good at knowing which part of a character is the radical and which part refers to pronunciation.

4) Visit free websites. Good ones are this website (of course!), www.zhongwen.com , http://www.china.org.cn/english/847.htm ...etc.

5) Label things in your apartment. Before I came to China I labeled all the things in my apartment with the Chinese characters, pinyin and tones. So every time I went out the door, I could look at that object and see 门口 (men2kou3, door). I don’t think my roommate was all that happy about this though. This, by the way, can also be a conversation starter. Back when I was in Boulder, Colorado I met a Beijinger. I showed him my keys that I had labeled 钥匙 (yao4shi). He was quite shocked, but my keys worked as a good thing for striking up conversations.

6) Enroll in a class or find a teacher. Obviously, an experienced native speaker is an invaluable resource. Like others have said, it’s good to find a teacher that will honestly correct your pronunciation and give you encouragement.

[wushijiao]

7) Find good learning materials. I’m sure lots of people can suggest things. After two or three months I used “Rapid Literacy in Chinese”, which I highly recommend.

8 ) If you are in China, buy a small notebook to write down new stuff. When I first came to China, I brought my small notebook with me wherever I went. When I saw a new character or learned a new word, I’d write it down. One of my first meals in China was a bowl of hot soup, with vegetables, noodles and a ton of fiery spice. I asked the people what it was called. I mistakenly wrote down malatan, because that is how I heard it. Later I found out it was 麻辣汤 (ma2la4tang1). However, when people saw my book, they generally laughed their asses off, and pointed out all of my mistakes. In other words, my poorly written book served as a conversation piece and I had many Chinese people teaching me for free.

9) Buy music on DVD’s and CD’s. When I first arrived I went to the store to buy a bunch of CD’s, in order to try to find the Chinese Radiohead or Pink Floydd. However, I ended up buying VCD’s, which are kind of like poor quality DVDs. This turned out to be a wonderful blessing in disguise because I was able to listen to the lyrics of the songs while reading the characters. Anybody who has unfortunately heard the Macarena knows that music can easily get stuck in your head, whether you want it there or not. Chinese words from my Wang Fei’s VCD were stuck in my head, and because I saw the characters go by karaoke style dozens of times, I learned many characters fairly painlessly.

10) Make flash cards. On one side write the character, on the other the pinyin and English. Chinese words are usually comprised of two characters. For example, if you plan on not dying, you should probably learn the word 水 (shui3, water). The word “hand” is 手 (shou3). You can combine these to make 水手, “water hand” means “sailor”. So, in order not to forget水, learn it in another context. You’ll probably want to buy a bottle of water, which is 一瓶水. If you’ve learned a bit of Chinese history, you might have heard of the Taiping Rebellion, a wacky rebellion against the Qing Empire led by some David Koresh-types. Anyway, the “ping” of Taiping is 平, which roughly means “peace”, “fair” or “level”. When combined with 水, it becomes水平, or level (as in, “My Yiddish level sucks”).

The point is, for every new character I learned, I tried to memorize it in two different contexts. This increased my chances of remembering it. Also, learn the characters for the Chinese words you already know. For example, Beijing is the so-called “North Capital” 北京. 南京 Nanjing is the “South Capital”. Clearly, 京 means capital. Similarly, 北方 (Bei3fang1) means northern part, or northern part of China, while 南方 (nan2fang1) means southern part, or southern part of China. But you’d better learn 方 in at least one more context, so learn 地方 （di4fang1, place）, with 地 meaning “ground”.

11) Also, if you are in China, whenever you get in a taxi or go to the store, chit chat. Say 你好 (nihao, hello), but also say something else to show the person that you can speak Chinese. For example, I sometimes say something like, “今天的天气太热!” (Today’s weather is too hot!). Then you can go from there. You can practice your set phrase with your teacher until you can say it perfectly. This is important because most people assume that foreigners can’t speak Chinese, so they probably won’t start the conversation.

12) Listen for key words. When somebody speaks, maybe you’ll only understand 20%. Don’t worry. Listen for the key words. Then say, “你的意思是….” (So what you mean to say is…” In other words, rephrase what you think the person just said using words that you know. Then from the facial expression, you’ll be able to see if you did get it right or not.

13) Speak with fluency. “Fluent” is a concept that is hard to define, and a place that I may never reach. But what I call “speaking with fluency” is another thing that can even be done by beginners. Here’s a drill that you can do. Take some semi-complex words in English or whatever your native language is. Then use small and basic words to define it. For example:

Dictionary- if you don’t know a word, you can find it in this book

Extradition- when a bad guy from my country is in your country, and my country wants him back

Watermelon- it’s a big fruit (use your hands to demonstrate). It is sweet and red.

Bank- a house where people put their money.

So when you speak, you may not know the word or concept in Chinese, but you can probably think of some small words that can express the same thing. In this manner, you can have fairly meaningful conversations after only a few months of study.

14) Learn the phases that will help slow down the conversation. , “请,说慢一点” (Literally, “Please, speak slow one dot” or as far as it’s meaning “Couldjya speak a bit slower please?” Also, 请,再说一遍 Literally, “Again speak one side” meaning “Could you please say it again.”

15) Dashan, a famous Canadian guy that speaks perfect Chinese and insecure foreigners love to nitpick and criticize, has a useful learning Chinese show you can watch for free on CCTV-9. If you can, watch it.

16) Combine formal studying with extensive exposure to Chinese. In basketball, the best players are the people who have gone through formal training with coaches showing them how to pass properly, how to box out, how to shoot with the right arch, how to work as a team. But the best players also play a lot of hoops in their free time, play “horse”, play “21”, watch basketball on TV, cross train, and lift weights. This is comparable to studying Chinese, with the textbooks and classrooms comparable to formal coaching and playing in organized leagues. The playing on your own is comparable to chit chatting, watching TV and movies, listening to music and the radio, reading the paper, scanning the Chinese Internet, studying on your own, writing characters again and again.

17) Combine determination with a deep passion for learning. People loved to watch Magic Johnson play not only because he was good, but also because he was so creative, happy and passionate about basketball. People loved to see Stevie Ray Vaughan play guitar because he was inspirational. He used to play so hard and with so much passion that he would even tape his calluses back on after they had fallen off. It sounds a bit cheesy, but if you can find this sort of passion and enjoyment in learning Chinese, I have no doubts that you will improve and get something meaningful to your life out of it.

These are just a few ideas that I had. I hope other people can share their experiences and ideas, especially as to what learning materials seemed good at the start.

[jkopecky]

This is my first post here, so if I am going about it wrong or anything, please don't get upset and let me know

I learned my Chinese while living in Taiwan, so I didn't begin learning with pinyin and thus have a somewhat different perspective. I learned using buxiban, which is how Taiwanese children (who grow up speaking Taiwanese, often) learn. I found it very useful in the beginning. If you don't know, these are a set of a few characters each associated with certain sounds; they are written on the side of Chinese characters so you get a lot of exposure to seeing the characters as you learn vocabularly, accelerating the learning process (I feel). I actually much prefer them to Pinyin, and I found that because it was a totally different set of 'letters' I didn't feel constrained to make myself make English-language sounds. I highly recommend these books for beginners (although I'm not sure how readily available they are outside of Taiwan and parts of Beijing).

As I progressed in Chinese, I found the most useful thing was becoming used to saying something in other words. Your vocabularly is going to be limited for quite a while, but you will find that you can still communicate quite well if you learn to say what you mean using what you know. Later, as you advance, you will find out the word for it. For instance, at first I couldn't say 'warm' or something like that, but I could say 'a little hot' and 'a little cold' or something to that effect, and get my point across. That was deeply satisfying and was great motivation for me to continue my studies.

Oh, one word of warning. Many local Chinese have their own dialect. Sometimes, if you go out informally with them, they may switch to that dialect at times. This happened to me often, and at first it was very troubling. I would pick up quite a lot of words and meanings, and then I would be completely confused and not understand anything. It was frustrating, but I learned to just ask what they were talking about (in Mandarin) and they would quickly revert back.

[billhowell]

Eeeek! it seems to me that this takes advice way beyond the beginner stage... I have been in Shanghai since January and have been working my way through Pimsleur since then, now nearing the end of level 3. I did try Transparent Language 8 software, Teach Yourself Mandarin and Living Language CDs all of which I followed for the first 4 lessons and then .... I have to agree that it was like hitting a brick wall. Pimsleur gave me the lead in and the confidence to start trying out those stock phrases on the unsuspecting locals, since then I have moved on to using the Wenlin dictionary ( I keep wanting to buy the print version DeFrancis ABC but have so far resisted ) and Langenscheidt's pocket dictionary when I am away from the computer to help me along ... using Pimsleur as the structure to hang it on. I also tried the Oxford Dictionary for my Palm but it never really seemed to give me the word I needed - the indexing needs work. Pimsleur is like a giant phrasebook that drills you to pronounce the bits and pieces it gives you over a long series of lessons. My pronounciation and understanding jumped forward but the editors' choice of phrases is variably useful shading on the more formal side. There is an underlying plot of a westerner trying to ... how shall I say it ... further international relations . A language lesson course with a subtext who would have thought it! I feel like I have spent a lot of time on Pimsleur and I have at least made some progress but by the end of 80 odd 1/2 hour lessons some of which I reviewed 6 times I still feel like I am just scratching the surface. There is a complete transcription of the first level floating about on the internet which is helpful and some people have recommended the LP Mandarin Phrase Book to accompany the CDs ( especially useful as an intro to the basic grammar. LP decided to use a homegrown version of pinyin which is initially a little helpful but ultimately confusing. So ... the LP book is great for a visitor but not that useful for a longer-term student ) As for the next step I have started chewing on New Practical Chinese Reader and Workbook complete with CDs but it is slow going ( albeit that these materials are for nothing in PRC books around US$4 CDs US$5 ). I started to look at the HSK stuff but I think I will need more basics I can even start with that. I think I am just about to plateau and I have begun to haunt the Foreign Languages Bookstore on the Fuzhou Road leafing through the books that I am hoping willl move me onto the next step.. I might even have to sign up for formal lessons next!

[beirne]

I also tried the Oxford Dictionary for my Palm but it never really seemed to give me the word I needed - the indexing needs work.

Check out Plecodict , the descendant of the Oxford Dictionary for the Palm. The program now comes with a number of optional dictionaries, including DeFrancis's ABC and the English-Chinese Pinyin dictionary. These two were my favorites and it has been great having them in my Palm. You can also get the Oxford dictionary itself, now in a new edition. Those all cost money, but you can also get a number of free dictionaries as well. I never open a paper dictionary anymore and use Wenlin mainly for writing practice.

[gato]

Some good general advice for learning a foreign language.

http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2005/06/27/200506270012.asp

Forstner stressed people often ignore the importance of learning culture related to the target foreign language. But language cannot be separated from culture, and be it a professional translator or a student who has to learn a foreign language should invest heavily in learning culture.

For some overzealous Korean parents who want a quick result when it comes to learning English, Forstner's advice might sound far-fetched. But disregarding the cultural aspect of foreign languages is not a smart move. After all, pushing children to memorize vocabulary or grammar rules will not lead to a high level of language proficiency.

"The first question we have to ask is, what is the purpose of learning a foreign language? And children should be in a playful environment to express themselves actively," said Barbara Moser-Mercer, director of ETI.

In other words, knowledge about the cultural background of the target foreign language and interaction with native speakers are essential. But what about those who rely on self-study and find it hard to go beyond a certain level?

Moser said it is natural that students who learn foreign languages confront a period of slump. That's what is called "ceiling effect," a period in which one's foreign language ability seems stagnant. But it is a period when one's proficiency is actually consolidating before entering a higher level, she said.

Moser also recommended identifying a very specific weakness - pronunciation, for instance - and work on it intensively. "If you want to pronounce sentences clearly even though speaking at faster pace, practice it for 10 minutes a day for three months, not five hours a day. And you'll get the result you want," she said.

Fortunato Israel, director of renowned Paris-based translation school ESIT, said "immersion" is the key to learning foreign languages effectively. "Using languages actively does not mean knowing words and grammar. It's about delivering thoughts and messages effectively."

Israel said a variety of tools like TV programs, DVDs and other multimedia are helping people to learn foreign languages. But more important is whether one can understand not only the language but also social and cultural backgrounds.

[ZenLow]

Thanks wushijiao for your shared experience.

Consistency, perserverance, determination, and most importantly motivation truly pays off.

It would have helped if we were born linguistic geniuses, but for us mere mortals, we have to do things the long-winded ways.

As a newcomer to this forum and to putongwah, I really hope us novices can draw from your wealth of experience, and knowledge.

As an aside, I've read summaries of Barry Farbers book on tips on how to learn languages quickly. Somebody has recycled it with more personal flavours.

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/11/9/195744/646

It seems the best approach to learning a new language is nowhere linear, textbook and black & white.

(learning more along the lines of full motion, 3D, action packed movie, delivered in glorious 'technicolor' is the best way to make it).

What I'd really appreciate, if permitted, is to have the more experienced members in the forum contribute on maybe mnemonics , memory techniques, or tools and other aids they might have used or made up in the process.

As they say, its better to work smarter, than to work harder.

[Green Pea]

Nice post, wushijiao.

[Morgaine]

Thanks a lot for the advice, wushijiao. As a Canto speaker, I went to HK this summer to learn Mandarin on an exchange program. It was really discouraging 'cause they pushed so much material at us in the month I was there, that I've lost all motivation to learn. But your steps breaking down the learning process is really encouraging, and a good way to get back to learning. So thanks again.

[atitarev]

请, 再说一边

Nice post, Wushijiao, only shouldn't the last character be 遍?

请, 再说一遍

[Ncao]

As a Canto speaker, I went to HK this summer to learn Mandarin on an exchange program. It was really discouraging 'cause they pushed so much material at us in the month I was there, that I've lost all motivation to learn.

Actually HK isn't the perfect place to learn Mandarin.

[HashiriKata]

Nice post' date=' Wushijiao, only shouldn't the last character be 遍?

请, 再说一遍[/quote']You're correct, atitarev !

(But you only need to look away for a second, you computer can sneakily turn your 一遍 into 一边 )

[wushijiao]

Thanks HashiriKata and atitarev! Sorry for the mistake!

[atitarev]

Don't mention it. I didn't mean to be picky at all

[Erikk]

Hi guys, I am a new comer to the forum. At the moment, I am teaching a couple of Australian friends speaking Chinese (mandarin). I am looking for a textbook for the beginners. Do any one of you have good suggestions? Many thanks!

[kudra]

@ Erikk

check these

best study tools

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/8195-best-of-chinese-study-tools-studying-chinese-online-and-off

some text books used in US universities

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/8091-texts-used-in-us-university-programs

[Erikk]

Thanks a lot Kudra. It is very useful.

[Roee]

My 0.002 cents: PROJECT your voice and always speak loud, clear and with confidence, regardless if you are sure on how to pronounce the words or not (It doesn't matter one bit.) Even more than how you'd express yourself in your native tongue. People will understand you better, you can hear your own voice better and notice your pronounciation and lots of other obvious advantages.

[hunxueer]

funny. what's with basketball and chinese?

i made a poster for my students last year, all of whom were college freshmen attending my "oral english" class (barf to the notion that english should be broken into "spoken" and "written"), and because they were so adamant about and proud of their having studied for six years but yet most would never dare to utter a word, i made a poster with some pictures of players making slam dunks and the message: "speaking english is like playing basketball: you can't learn to play just by watching tv ... practice, practice, practice." the message was a little ambiguous, so i hope it made them pause and think a bit. my version of propaganda.

[Blufox]

Thank you, wushijiao, for the very detailed tips on how/where to begin!

I have been to China two times, but was only able to communicate with very basic phrases and hand gestures. My favorite shopping memory from my first visit was when it took me 5 minutes -and a group of 4 friendly female employees- to find where they had a flag of China for purchase. We all had some good laughs over that experience.

I have the first 10 lessons of Pimsleur Mandarin 1, as well as Before You Know It and the Rosetta Stone demo. I am trying to decide whether or not to 'bite the bullet' (also known as empty my wallet) and buy RS 1+2. I use NJStar often when I want to mess around with characters.

I work at Hewlett-Packard, and are increasingly involved with projects that are being assembled in Shanghai. That -and the emerging Chinese economic boom- is motivating me to progress in my studies so that my boss will consider sending me to China on business.(sh)

In closing, I am happy to have found this forum and look forward to reading the many posts that are here.

Blufox