Is this a good reason to go to Grad School in China?

[paperbagprince]

I have been studying Chinese for a year (including 2 years in China), but all with one issue: I cannot seem to get past HSK 5.

I applired for and got the CSC last year,  but had to turn it down. I am thinking about applying agian.
I have been meaning to get a grad degree for a while (most likly in Demography, Ethno-Sociology, though IR is a possibility), however the reason I want to do it in China is to get my Chinese to the "next level".

 

I was in China from 2009-2011, but havnt taken a chinese class since then. I have many Chinese friends who I talk to often, but still, my Chinese cannot seem to get past HSK 5. I read novels sometimes, and the occiasional televsion show, but it seems like I am the kind of person who just needs (and thrives) in a classroom setting.

 

I wanted to get my Chinese to a near native level by the time I am 28 (only a few more years, hehe)

I was thinking that being in China at school, having to do all my readings and writings in Chinese, would be a good way to really get my Chinese where it needs to be.

 

What does everyone think?

[kdavid]

Taking graduate level courses in Chinese is not easy, even when you're knowledgeable with the content. This is even more so the case when you have to stop every other sentence to look up discipline-specific jargon.

 

If your Chinese "isn't quite there yet," then an MA program may help. However, it may also hinder your progress in other areas and/or slow down your time line to achieve other goals.

 

Is your goal to go on to a PhD? If so, I'd recommend you do an MA in the States and look for opportunities to do field work in China. This will open up more opportunities long-term. If you have no intention of doing a PhD, and are only using the MA as a vehicle to improve your Chinese, then doing an MA in China may be a good idea.

[Angelina]

It is really difficult, are you sure you want to do it?

The biggest problem I have been having is academic writing.

Maybe you can try to write more, you don't have to go to grad school in China to do it. Maybe you can try to work on your writing skills on your own this year and try grad school afterwards.

Reading novels and watching TV is good for your passive knowledge, if you want to be able to write like a native speaker, you have to write what native speakers write.

Are you genuinely interested in ethno-sociology or is improving your language skills your only reason?

[somethingfunny]

I'd second kdavid's comments there, and you should read his thread on doing graduate study in China.

 

I'd be careful if you're still on at HSK4.  I passed HSK5 about two years ago and the classes I am taking at the moment are very difficult to understand.  There are three reasons for this:

 

1.  I live in the southwest and most lecturers speak with a heavy accent.

2.  The course has a large 'peer-taught' element and my classmates speak very quickly and very quietly.

3.  Lecturers have clearly received no training in course design or class delivery and classmates have had very little assessed practice at public speaking.  Therefore, any talks, presentations or lectures are of fairly low quality with no clear aims or structure.

 

Obviously, all of these could be mitigated by going to a better university in a part of China with a more intelligible accent.

 

I'm not sure about the US but the UK definitely has Master's degree programmes which last 2 years with a substantial amount of time studying in China with the express aim of improving language skills.  This would have the added benefit of these classes being of a fairly high standard.

 

If you're the type of student that likes to be in class all the time, with clear aims and objectives and someone on your back getting you to do work, then I'd say no, don't do it.  If you like having lots of free time to do your own things - and more importantly, are able to improve your Chinese independently, then I'd say go for it.

[Angelina]

How are your writing skills somethingfunny? How is your thesis going?

I have been able to participate in my lectures just fine, granted, I go to one of the better universities and I can understand spoken Mandarin pretty well.

Academic writing, on the other hand, has been a nightmare.

Last month I met a foreign linguist who has done excellent work on Chinese, she told me she is not able to write papers in Chinese either, and sometimes needs her students to help her. Maybe I have been too hard on myself.

[somethingfunny]

It's a joke.  There is no written component to any of my classes.  The attitude is very much 到时候交个论文就可以 so I don't really get any practice at writing.  

 

I'm only first year so I don't need to worry about my thesis yet.  At the moment I'm very much considering whether it's worth the effort to carry on with the thesis component of the degree.  I might just give it a year for the taught component and then move on to something else.  Two years to write a thesis seems a bit excessive and its very clear that there won't be any kind of useful guidance during the writing process.  Foreign students are managed by the overseas office and it seems that whatever happens I'll definitely pass, which is pretty much the worst situation possible for me personally.

 

It's a shame as it would obviously be pretty cool to be able to actually write proper essays in Chinese, but I'm willing to settle with reading/listening/speaking being good and writing not-so-great and find something else which aligns with these skills.  I can write emails etc. no problem, but there's no way I'd be able to construct an argumentative essay with the appropriate academic language in Chinese.  It's bulls**t and really annoys me because the only advice I've received from lecturers (lecturers!) is along the lines of "write it in English and pay someone to translate it in to Chinese".  No thanks.

[somethingfunny]

kdavid, you wrote your master's thesis in Chinese right?  Maybe you could share your experience on this point...

[Angelina]

I can write emails etc. no problem, but there's no way I'd be able to construct an argumentative essay with the appropriate academic language in Chinese.

Yes, I have done PPTs in Chinese, it went well.

I am still trying to write my thesis. It is either I write a good one or I drop out.

[somethingfunny]

I reckon I'd be able to do a ppt in Chinese, although I'd be reluctant to do the delivery in Chinese as well.  It's funny because I think I'd be able to do a pretty good ppt in Chinese, but I could also do a ppt like all of my classmates and just copy huge chunks to text from the internet.  Even one of the 名师's here has a ppt which is copied from the internet and is full of mistakes and wrong characters.

 

I'll probably be dropping out.  Like I said, it would be awesome to have written a thesis in Chinese, but I have to think carefully about the investment/reward time ratio and considering I'm not planning on producing a lot of written Chinese material in my later life, it's probably not worth it.  The nail in the coffin is the fact that I'd get no feedback on it and probably no-one would even read it, so I wouldn't even know if I'd done a good job or not.

 

But if you manage to do it, then massive respect.  I'm just in the process of justifying my actions to myself!

[roddy]

The only good reason to go to grad school in China is to get a graduate degree from a Chinese university. if your aim is just to get fluent in Chinese, study Chinese one way or another. 

[paperbagprince]

Thanks for all the advice
(to clarify, I am HSK 5).
 

I guess part of me wants to go to grad school in China, not just to improve my chinese, but also as a matter of pride. How wonderful it would be to have gone to grad school in China, and like the people above say, do presentations, writie papers, and such in Chinese. However, it seems like many of the above experiences do not seem to positive. I feel like I am too old now (25) to do something based on pride or because it will be cool.

 

Since I have a bit of experience with the dialcts of Gansu and Shanxi, I had wanted to go there for school (also I have an interest in West China in general). However, I am aware the schools will not be as good. So its a matter of going to a school with better teachers but also more forigners, or a school with probably less forigners but also worse teachers. (I am also considering Taiwan, where I have also lived, loved, and think the education standards will be higher, even if I do find Taiwan life too easy).

 

I met with the head of the Ethno-Sociology department while i was doing research on chinese ethnic minorities living in central asia. She gave me her wechat, told me she wanted me to go to her school (Minda) and even wanted me to do her department. She told me my Chinese should be good enough; of course a big challange at first but she thinks I can do it (then agian, whose knows what her real rational is, haha!).

 

I know there are plenty of people who speak wonderful Chinese without even stepping foot in China. When I was doing research on the Chinese of Peru, I met a Peruvian man (not even of chinese decent) who spoke Mandarin, Canto, and Hakka all fluently. (Now, I am not fooling myself to think I am as gifted as that, but plenty of people have done it). Maybe im jsut making excuses for myself.

[paperbagprince]

I always seem Chinese students (and other nationalities) in the US who seem to be able to do it all just fine. I just seem them and have so much awe and feel like if they can do it, so can I. Silly, hun?

[kdavid]

The attitude is very much 到时候交个论文就可以 so I don't really get any practice at writing.

 

 

I've commented on this elsewhere, but we were required to turn in papers for each class at the end of each semester. I received absolutely no feedback whatsoever. I received only very little feedback on my thesis, and most of it was directed at rephrasing and restructuring.

 

If you really want to improve your Chinese, go live somewhere where you're one of very few, if any, English speakers. Make Chinese friends. Go out and speak a ton. Watch TV. Read. Etc. You can even watch university lectures online if you want to improve your academic Chinese. I bet you'd make more progress faster, and with less of a headache, this way than doing a graduate degree.

[Torreno]

Maybe it`s a bit offtopic but anyway.

Is it possible to study in Chinese Universities by only taking 1 year of language training and passing HSK4?

Will it be VERY hard or i will get some help because i am foreign? 

Thanks for your replies! 

[Angelina]

I met with the head of the Ethno-Sociology department while i was doing research on chinese ethnic minorities living in central asia.

You are interested in academia after all.

You can try grad school. If you do a Chinese taught degree, it will be tough, but it is your decision. I definitely suggest you to pay attention to your academic writing. You should also be careful when choosing a 导师, no matter where you go to school.

@Torreno

It will be hard. I am not saying you should not do it, but you should at least be aware that you have to write a thesis in Chinese. Do you think you will be able to complete homework assigments, work on your thesis after just one year of Chinese?

I have not graduated yet.

It would not hurt to be realistic.

[roddy]

Hello Angelina 

 

Yeah, originally you gave the impression you were doing this ONLY to get better at Chinese. If you have an interest in a subject and connections and the time and money to do it, that's a completely different matter. 

 

Incidentally, as it may be of interest here, this conference programme may give some leads on looking further into Chinese for Academic Purposes - maybe some of the speakers run courses or have published books, etc. 

[kdavid]

I always seem Chinese students (and other nationalities) in the US who seem to be able to do it all just fine.

 

 

This isn't always the case. I have a mixed bag of Chinese students now. Most are very good, others struggle to even string simple sentences together. The former have generally had decades of language instruction, the latter not so much.

[Sofia80]