这条河有两米宽度

[rtf]

Hello!

 

 

Dictionaries say that ‘width’ is 宽度, and in the examples  they give ‘river`s width’ as 河的宽度 which is clear and ‘the river is two meters wide’ as 这条河有两米宽. Looks like they mean that 宽 here is a noun and a short form of宽度, the full sentence being 这条河有两米宽度. But if it is, then the question ‘How wide is the river?’ would look like  这条河有多宽？where 多 means  ‘How’, so 宽 can only be an adjective, not a noun (lit. ‘The river is how wide’)?

 

My question is: can it be that 宽 is an adjective in a question and a noun  in the answer to that same question?

 

 

Thanks a lot.

[abcdefg]

First of all, 这条河有两米宽 -- I don't think this is a good sentence.

 

But, "wide" is a noun; and "width" is an advjective.

[yvesc]

second of all, 这条河有两米宽 is a perfectly good sentence.  

Conversely, 这条河有两米宽度, as hypothesized by the OP, sounds un-Chinese.

(两米的宽度，宽度有两米, ok)

 

OP:

宽 is an adj, 宽度 is a noun. 宽 is not an abbreviation of 宽度.

What you need is, not to check a dict, but get familiar with basic Chinese structure:

一米长

三米高

etc,

which happily is very similar to English, "three-meter high" etc

[rtf]

@yvesc: thanks a lot for the info, 我知道了. I`d be happy if you could clarify one more thing for me.  这条河多宽？lit. 'the river how wide?' is totally OK with me, but it`s 有 In 这条河有多宽？  that confuses me and seems out of place here  lit. 'the river has how wide'? 

Same story with  一米长 and 三米高 that are absolutely clear to me,but not  河有一米长 and 她有三米高.

[Lu]

Looks like they mean that 宽 here is a noun and a short form of 宽度, the full sentence being 这条河有两米宽度.

No. 宽 means 'wide'. 宽度 means literally means 'degree of wide'. 宽 is not the short form of it. *这条河有两米宽度 is wrong, it would mean something like 'This river is two meters wideness.'

 

I can't comment on the 有 I'm afraid, other than that I understand your confusion but that 有 is correct.

[yvesc]

@rtf, sorry I didn't give you clear examples. One can say:

他有多高? 它有两米高。

 

Just accept the structure. Don't equate 有 with "have" (it's more like "him, there is how high?").

In your example, 这条河有多宽 "the river, how wide is it?"

[rtf]

 

 

Don't equate 有 with "have" (it's more like "him, there is how high?").

 

@yvesc: thanks so much! In fact, that`s what I wanted to know!

[Messidor]

宽度: width

宽：a. wide *     n. width

 

这条河很宽。宽 in this sentence is an adj. ; 

这条河多宽呀！(How wide is the river!) an adj. ;

这条河多宽呀？(What's the width of the river) a noun **;

这条河有两米宽。(This river has a width of 2m) a noun;

People will also say 这条河是两米宽(This river is 2m in width) / 这条河两米宽 (This river, 2m in width)*** / 这条河有两米的宽度 / 这条河(的)宽度是两米(The width of this river is 2m / This river, its width is 2m) / 这条河宽两米(This river, (its) width is 2m)

 

I guess this explanation may be less confusing.

 

------------------------------

* as an adj. 宽 also means 1) lenient and 2) well-off; 宽 is also a verb.

** to paraphrase this sentence: 这条河有多少的宽度呀？So 多 is what, 宽 is width. But Chinese rarely say the "complete" sentence... btw the "complete" version of the 4th sentence can be 这条河有两米的宽度.

*** many subject-predicate sentence in Chinese have no 是 as this one

[rtf]

@Messidor: thank you so much, I`d never would`ve thought it was that complex…  Well, there`s a lot for me to digest, but to have a complete picture I`d like to ask a couple of more questions,if it`s OK with you:

 

1.So, in #3 多 should be read as duo1, because  1. it`s an abbreviation of 多少, and 2. the word after it isn`t an adjective? (Because I`ve been tought that 多 is read as duo2 before adjectives)

2.I believe all the other adjectives of this kind behave on the same pattern (高 = 高度，深 = 宽度，长 = 长度，etc)? If  so, your explanation  seems to contradict  everything  that has been said to me on the subject  before,even Yip Po-Ching`s point of view, who says that  ‘有may also be used to introduce an adjectival predicate which incorporates a number:  那条路有两百英里长’ , but  it also seems to be the only logical way to explain the phenomenon.

3.I can`t help but notice that  sentences  #2 and #3 with 多…? all end with  a 呀. Is it part of the meaning  and therefore absolutely nesssesary in sentences of the kind or else (which is more likely) is just a rhythm-filler?

4. （有）多大？and（有）多大岁数？seem to be exceptions  to the rule you`ve explained, right?  Here 多 must be ‘how’ and 大 ‘big’, the latter being an adjective.

 

Thanks a lot again and good luck!

[Messidor]

1

1.1  The pronunciation of 多 is duo1; duo2 (before an adj.) is optional and dialectal (in northern dialects).

1.2  When 多 means 多少, it's an interrogative pronoun; when it's used before an adj.(多漂亮 (= 多么漂亮)), it's an degree adverb.

 

4

4.1  In the sentence 箱子有多大, 有 means to has a quality or condition. It's abstractive to some extent and its sense of "possession" is much less obvious. Semantically, 有 requires a patient but in this case the patient is not a thing but a quality.

4.2  In the phrase 有多大(的)岁数, 有 has the noun 岁数 (between a thing and a quality) as an object syntactically and as a patient semantically; in the phrase有多大, the object as well as patient of 有 is the adjectival phrase 多大 (a quality but not a thing).

4.3  I personally would make a continuum of abstraction of 有(thus the role of its patient), and place several examples in this continuum

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它有多大岁数了?       河有2m的宽度。    河有2m宽      这条河多宽呢?      这条河有多宽呢? / 这河得有多宽呀! / 它岁数有多大呢?

In the 4th example here (the 3rd one in my last post), the part of speech of 宽 is somewhat between a n. and an adj., but the 4th is still different from the 5th one: the latter entails the interlocutor's opinion that the river is wide (but he/she doesn't know how wide it can be) whereas the same entailment of the 4th one is very weak, since when asking the width of something people use 宽 but not 窄(just like there is width but no "narrowth"), therefore 多宽 is more a simple idiomatic expression than an expression that entails much information.

 

2

2.1  I've found some examples in Yip po-ching's book Chinese: a comprehensive grammar (pp.263-264). 1) 你的弟弟有你那么高吗？2)我的弟弟有一米九高。I suppose that Yip takes the syntactic structures of them as the same for some good reasons. But I would like to consider them as different for other reasons. Let's use the continuum briefly explained above again, 1) is on the right side of 2) in the continuum since 1) is used to express comparison (as stated in Yip's book) and it has the ability to entail that 你 is tall in the interlocutor's opinion; furthermore, some people may rephrase the 2nd sentence as 3)我的弟弟有一米九那么高, but I think 2) and 3) are different. 3) has the ability to entail that the interlocutor thinks 弟弟 is tall while that ability of 2) is weaker and the 2) is more a idiomatic expression.

2.2  "有may also be used to introduce an adjectival predicate" ---- the examples (other than which incorporate a number) have been given in 4.3.

 

3

3.1  呀 is a modal particle (in exclamatory sentence or interrogative sentence) and is not syntactically necessary in a sentence, but it can be used to give a stronger tone.

3.2  The only differences of the appearance of the two sentences are the punctuations (when written) and the intonation (when spoken), but it'll be much easier to determine the intension of the sentence in a real situation (context).

 

 

The clearer and simpler the grammar for learners is, the better and easier its application will be. But a descriptive linguistic account of a sentence sometimes can be very complex, confusing or controversial because the rules of natural language and the human's cognition are like black boxes to us. We humans are using our patterned cognitive ability to understand the ability itself...|||→_→

btw, I hope you've managed those idiomatic expressions and my version of explanation (which can be wrong) won't hinder your learning.

[rtf]

@Messidor: wow,that`s some break down! Thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate it!