Moving to Beijing in 8 months but know no Mandarin

[hff]

Hey All,

 

I'm doing a masters program in China and will be leaving in eight months. The program is entirely in English, however it will include Mandarin classes. I'd like to begin learning Mandarin now so that I can at the very least survive in Beijing. I'm American but have studied in Argentina and speak Spanish relatively fluently, so I've run the learning a foreign language gauntlet once. That said, I'm anticipating Mandarin to be far more difficult. Between now and August I'd like to be able to do the following:

 

1. maintain a very basic conversation about simple topics and move beyond memorized phrases (ask for directions, ask about how the family is doing, compliment someone, etc)
2. Learn the verb conjugations
3. Understand the structure and rules

 

In order to do this, I'm planning on buying Rocket Languages mandarin and doing 1-1.5hours per day for the next 8 months and talking with Chinese speakers via iTalki when I feel I'm comfortable enough doing so. I'm not worried about reading and writing for now. Are my goals realistic and if so is this the right approach?

 

Thanks,

Mike

[Shelley]

Welcome to the forum. 

 

I have a never heard of  Rocket Languages Mandarin but if is this the course you would like to do I am sure it will be fine but I would strongly suggest you start reading and writing as soon as you can, if you leave it till later it will almost be like having to start again.

 

There are two schools of thought about learning to read and write characters, some say with smart phones and computers you don't need to learn to write characters and you only nee to learn the basic of reading to enable you to read signs and simple things.

 

I am of the opinion that you should learn speaking, listening, reading and writing all together. I believe this will give you a much more rounded and complete mastery of the the language. it takes more time and is harder but I think the end result is worth it. By all means concentrate a bit more on speaking and listening but don't neglect reading and writing.

 

I use the textbook New Practical Chinese Reader. If you are interested in how I spend my time learning chinese you could have a look at my blog here http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/blog/108-my-chinese-learning-blog/

 

How ever you decide to study, I hope you enjoy it, it is important to be happy with what you are doing. Remember that this forum is a very good resource and the people here are friendly and helpful.

[roddy]

Rocket Languages I'm dubious about - I've never seen any feedback about them that hasn't been accompanied by their very well-paying affiliate links. 

[Xiao Kui]

I'm American but have studied in Argentina and speak Spanish relatively fluently, so I've run the learning a foreign language gauntlet once. That said, I'm anticipating Mandarin to be far more difficult

 

Your anticipation is correct. I also learned Spanish fluently in Argentina and it took me a fraction of the time it did to become fluent in Chinese.

 

2. Learn the verb conjugations

 

Good news for you - there is no verb conjugating to do in Chinese you just add words or particles before or after verbs to indicate tense. This is one of the few areas where it's simpler than Spanish. 

 

I'm not worried about reading and writing for now.

 

That's fine. A friend of mine only knows pinyin and he is making phenomenal progress with speaking and listening. I chose to learn reading and writing from the getgo, and I'm glad I did. i think it slowed me down in the beginning, but my life in China is so much easier because I can read.  I feel like i have a higher quality of life than my foreign friends who can't read. If you are a visual learner I recommend you start with reading and writing  because it makes new words easier to remember since Chinese has so many homophones. However if you are not good at memorizing visuals then maybe introduce reading and writing 6 months into your learning journey.  If you don't learn reading and writing your Chinese will eventually plateau and you will be denying yourself access to lots of literature, news, culture, etc. 

 

Best of luck!

[ChTTay]

I'd be tempted to get a good starter course book (Integrated Chinese, boya, etc ) and taking Skype lessons or, if you can afford it, finding a real class where you live and joining that. You want to be speaking to or working with a Chinese speaker from the very beginning otherwise, you might be "learning" stuff from your book or course but saying it will completely the wrong tone.

 

If you do find a tutor or try to get Skype lessons, I'd spend a good amount of time in the first month or two learning pinyin and doing tone drills. You can include some basic conversation in there. Especially the typical questions that Chinese people tend to ask foreigners.

 

I'd probably just see how far you can get from there though using whichever textbook you decide to follow.

[hff]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

Xiao, how did the process of learning Spanish compare with that of Mandarin? I think 8 months of study plus 1 year in-country is more than enough to get there with Spanish, but how far could one reasonably progress with Mandarin over that time frame?

 

James

[eion_padraig]

HFF,

 

That's great. 

 

I moved to Shanghai years ago with a couple weeks worth of Mandarin so I could really only say basic things. Learning the language made living there much, much easier and fulfilling though even at the time there were lots of people who didn't bother and could get by.

 

1.) Learn proper pronunciation of pinyin - you'll need a native speaker to give you some feedback here, but there are lots of good online charts with recordings that you can use.

 

2.) Learn the tones and start to work on using them correctly - you'll also need a native speaker to give you frequent feedback and this can take years to master completely. Using correct tones matters a lot.

 

3.) I'm a big fan of Pimsleur helping people develop good pronunciation for the sentences they have people learn. It does allow one to develop a sense of how to construct sentences, but grammar is not explicitly taught.

 

4.) Get a good beginner textbook to work on vocabulary and that teaches basic grammar. New Practical Chinese Reader is good. I also think Integrated Chinese, which is used at a lot of US universities, is pretty good.

 

There are a lot of online Chinese resources and some are not bad, but I think most of them are overpriced for the value (Popup Chinese, Chinese Pod, Yo Yo Chinese). The one I've seen that does seem to really work on building language in a real ordered way is Melnyks'. It seemed to me to be a bit more Taiwanese as that's where he lived, but using it would still work quite well for living in Beijing.

 

You might also be able to find weekend Chinese language classes for a low cost being offered by expat Chinese/Taiwanese who want their kids to speak Chinese.  After moving back from the US, I found one of these in a medium sized city that didn't have a real large population. The place I went had an adult class for beginners too, but I was in the most advanced level with lots of middle and high school kids though I had the weakest language skills. This may be a good place to find a Chinese tutor. I'd check around universities in the US if you're looking for potential tutors and you're willing to hire someone. While not as good as a professional teacher, it'd be better than doing it on your own.

 

Good luck.

[eion_padraig]

I would follow up by saying Pimsleur can be pricey. You might be able to find copies of their cds in public libraries or second hand that are a lot less expensive than buying it new.

 

Secondly, it appears that Melnyk has reworked his site a bit. It appears to be a little less Taiwanese focused than it had been some years back. I like his method.

 

The Mandarin classes that you'll take in the university are probably going to be poorly taught. Teaching Mandarin in China is very hit and miss.

 

I'm of the camp not to spend too much time learning to read at first, but introduce it slowly after you have other basics with speaking and listening down. I think spending a lot of time writing by hand is not useful unless there is a real need to write by hand according to your language goals. It's important to learn stroke order and how characters are written, but writing from memory is of limited use in my opinion given technology.

[Xiao Kui]

Xiao, how did the process of learning Spanish compare with that of Mandarin? I think 8 months of study plus 1 year in-country is more than enough to get there with Spanish, but how far could one reasonably progress with Mandarin over that time frame?

Of course it depends on your determination, motivation and how much time you put in. It also depends on your definition of fluency.  I would at least double the in-country time and that is to get proficient and conversationally fluent, not to be able to speak at length on any topic. another big factor is that many Chinese may want you to speak with them in English and you will have to stand your ground - it is easy to lean on the English crutch when many people's English is better than your Chinese. When I was in Argentina ( I was in the north not BA)  almost everyone assumed I could speak Spanish and wanted to speak to me in Spanish.   Another thing you'll find out is while Argentines are quick to correct your Spanish and offer constructive criticism, Chinese will rarely correct you. If they understand you they'll completely ignore your mistakes, so it's hard to get helpful feedback unless you're in a formal learning situation. 

[Pokarface]

What the Heck is Rocket's Language Mandarin?!

Just use Assimil Chinese with ease (BOTH volumes) and Colloquial Chinese (or Living Language Chinese. I haven't used this last one, but it's more common to find it in the U.S.)

 

I can only speak Chinese, I can't read. Note that I don't plan in using Chinese for more than just fun.

You can see my progress here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTy-0yaDe9-IyRnQOj9ZHcQ/videos

 

Yes, your goals are realistic. It took me 5.5 moths to hold basic conversations (with a very funky accent) but I had longer study sessions than you back then, and you can see those conversations in my youtube channel. They are cringeworthy though.

Lol, verb conjugations in Chinese? You'll crush the time particles Chinese uses easily. If you were able to learn verb conjugations in Spanish, the particles in Chinese will be a walk in the park once you understand WTH is going on with,"了"

 

For step #3, you'll pretty much understand as much as you learn from right now to the end of the 8 months, but there's no guarantee you'll use it accurately in real time speech. With that being said, by 8 months you should be able to say something and quickly realize, "there's no way a Chinese would say it that way!" and you can correct it on the spot if whoever you talk isn't able to decipher what you said.