You don't need to learn Mandarin....

[Flickserve]

I was at a University Alumni event last night (this is in Hong Kong).

 

As you do, you meet random people so I met a lady who had done linguistics at our University. She was originally from Hong Kong but lives in the UK and back in HK for a couple of weeks.

 

She actually said in all seriousness that I do not need to learn Mandarin, the reason being English is enough. Everybody else in the world is learning English so I don't need to learn Chinese. Even on a social use, there is no need to learn Chinese as the people I meet will use English with me. Other people should be using English..

 

OK, so I learn Mandarin out of interest and being able to talk to other people. I think expecting everybody in the world to speak English to me is a bit insular and I can do my little bit to make other people feel more comfortable by speaking their language.

 

I was rather surprised to hear her position especially as she was a linguist. But then again, there are ranges of opinions from different people. From a business utility point of view, I think yes, it is true that I will never reach that level of proficiency. However, it was quite strange to be told outright "you don't need to learn Mandarin" especially from a linguist.

 

Unfortunately, I didn't get the time to explore further as it was a very busy evening and I am unlikely to meet this person again.

[GotJack]

I think this conversation needs more nuance.

 

"You don't need to learn Mandarin" ..... to do what?

 

If the statement is - You don't need to learn Mandarin in Honk Kong (an area in which a large majority have excellent English as well as many expats) at a University Alumini event (one that is likely to be attended by people who are highly educated and are therefore likely to have studied English to a high level) whilst speaking to an expert in linguistics (that has already lived in the UK). Then yes you don't need to learn Mandarin!

 

There may be a few other scenarios where it might be beneficial though... just saying

[889]

As well, some Hong Kong people have a bias against putonghua, especially those educated in the UK with strong ties there.

 

Could she speak Mandarin?

[Lu]

Rather prescriptivist. Other people should speak English so you don't need to learn Chinese.

[ZhangKaiRong]

"Everybody else in the world is learning English..." Yes, and the majority won't be able to use it effectively, just look at the Chinese, the Koreans and also the Japanese. Yes, in a perfect world everybody should be using English perfectly, because it is currently the standard international common language. But we are far from living in a perfect world, therefore learning languages makes sense not from the intellectual point of view, but also from the business point of view. Could she refer to the common misconception that Chinese will take over English as standard international common language by the end of the century? Because that way I can agree with her, there is no way that English will lose its priority to Chinese.

[JenniferW]

My academinc background is also linguistics and I'm ashamed of her! Though I suspect it's just a big over-simplification of lingua franca realities, in the context of a non-academic discussion. And I'd have asked her how much she'd actually ever traveled around in the PRC. And what about the soft-power aspects of being able to speak even just a little Mandarin for anyone with any sort of China-contact. And what about the cognitive effects of learning a non IndoEuropean language with a non-alphabetic writing system ... don't get me started!

[Shelley]

Just because you don't have to, doesn't mean you shouldn't. There is much more involved in speaking someone's language than communication. It shows you have made an effort to learn about the culture, people and history of a country.

 

Learning a language teaches you more than just how to make your self understood.

 

Its true that with English you can probably manage to communicate the basics almost anywhere in the world, but not much more.

 

I chose to learn chinese for pleasure, to learn more about china and to keep my brain active.

[Frederik451]

Maybe she was referring to people who choose to get a degree in Chinese at university to make it their way of living afterwards? As opposed to getting a degree in something else first and then later if you have the time and energy, you can learn Chinese and have it as an extra skill.

 

I remember when i started learning Chinese in 2012 and i was like "i'm gonna learn this impossible language and the demand for people like me will be so high when i graduate, because most Chinese people dont speak much english" 

 

But i'm starting to doubt the whole plan. I'm afraid that when it comes down to doing business, the Chinese companies will almost always have people who's english is better than my Chinese.

 

But i might be wrong. 

 

I'm on exchange in Shanghai right now and in my class at Donghua University, im one of the only ones who are actually getting a degree in the language. Most of my classmates are learning the language either for fun or because they moved here with family or for work. And most of them already have a degree in something else than Chinese. 

 

It freaks me out sometimes

 

 

But i totally agree that learning a language is useful for many other things than just doing business! So i won't say that i regret doing this. 

[Lu]

Its true that with English you can probably manage to communicate the basics almost anywhere in the world, but not much more.

Not really though. In most of China, pointing, smiling and nodding will get you further than English. From what I've seen of Russia, English doesn't get you that far there either (I once ended up using gesturing + Dutch to a train ticket office lady: if she wasn't going to understand anyway, might as well speak my mother tongue).

 

In the end, it all depends on who you want to talk to. Multinationals, hostels/big hotels and eager university students? Sure, you can get away with just English. Smaller companies, train stations, authors/directors/artists, delivery people, your in-laws? Good luck with that.

[Frederik451]

 

 

In the end, it all depends on who you want to talk to. Multinationals, hostels/big hotels and eager university students? Sure, you can get away with just English. Smaller companies, train stations, authors/directors/artists, delivery people, your in-laws? Good luck with that.

 

so that points me back to what i fear, which is that speaking chinese will not really change much for me except from what i use it for in daily life. 

[Lu]

There is still a market in training businesspeople how to do business in/with China. Even if their counterparts speak English (or have their own interpreter), they still need to know who to dine with before trying to sign. In addition, businesses are still flocking to Shanghai and Shenzhen and such. There's a world to be won inland. Chongqing and Chengdu are really eager to win more foreign investment, to name just two. If you can put yourself somewhere between those places and the West, there's still money to be made.

 

It's not as simple as listing yourself as a translator in the yellow pages and waiting for the big companies to hail you as their China savior, but I suspect it never was. I know all kinds of people making money from their Chinese and China knowledge.

 

Another thing is that 'first learn specialised subject, then learn Chinese' is one route, but 'learn Chinese, then learn specialised subject' is also one that works. Many, many people only specialise after they find their first job. If you can find a job in, say, a company making airplane parts, you can grow to become a China expert specialised in airplane building, even if you're not quite an engineer who could build the airplane himself.

[li3wei1]

And she didn't need to study linguistics, but she did. And maybe shouldn't have.

[naijahusker]

Silly way of thinking. You don't need to learn to play the piano because you can just buy Beethoven on CD. Doing certain things are more fulfilling than utilitarian.

[Flickserve]

I think this conversation needs more nuance.

"You don't need to learn Mandarin" ..... to do what?

If the statement is - You don't need to learn Mandarin in Honk Kong (an area in which a large majority have excellent English as well as many expats) at a University Alumini event (one that is likely to be attended by people who are highly educated and are therefore likely to have studied English to a high level) whilst speaking to an expert in linguistics (that has already lived in the UK). Then yes you don't need to learn Mandarin!

There may be a few other scenarios where it might be beneficial though... just saying

Actually, she didn't specify. So I took it as a global statement to my whole life. Obviously one doesn't need to learn Mandarin for a UK University alumni event. I may be thick but not that thick...!

Granted that I am middle aged, grew up in England and moved to HK for work and stayed.

[Flickserve]

As well, some Hong Kong people have a bias against putonghua, especially those educated in the UK with strong ties there.

Could she speak Mandarin?

True.

I didn't ask about her Mandarin skills.

Rather prescriptivist. Other people should speak English so you don't need to learn Chinese.

Seems rather small minded, right?

"Everybody else in the world is learning English..." Yes, and the majority won't be able to use it effectively, just look at the Chinese, the Koreans and also the Japanese. Yes, in a perfect world everybody should be using English perfectly, because it is currently the standard international common language. But we are far from living in a perfect world, therefore learning languages makes sense not from the intellectual point of view, but also from the business point of view. Could she refer to the common misconception that Chinese will take over English as standard international common language by the end of the century? Because that way I can agree with her, there is no way that English will lose its priority to Chinese.

Difficult to say. We didn't get time to talk more (I was very busy being one of the co-hosts and also got called away)

[Flickserve]

And she didn't need to study linguistics, but she did. And maybe shouldn't have.

Maybe she was expressing some sort of regret over her own life choice?...

[geraldc]

As a native Cantonese speaking Hong Konger, my wife is refusing to improve her mandarin as a political statement.

[Flickserve]

Just went to another networking event and the HK person I met there (first meeting) also said I don't need to learn Mandarin. The reason was English and Cantonese is enough in HK. Twice in one week. I hope this doesn't become a trend.

[Lu]

Well, if the context is 'in HK', I think I might agree. If you already know Cantonese and English, Mandarin would add little in HK. But if you want to do things in China mainland, it still comes in pretty handy.

 

(Cue someone at your next networking event saying that Naah, you can just pick it up from soap series and educated guesses. Yeah, if you really enjoy watching lots of soap series, have an extensive knowledge of Cantonese (or another dialect), a good sense for languages and don't mind saying funny or weird things when you inevitably occasionally get it wrong. Then you can probably just learn Mandarin on the go.)

[Flickserve]

However, if Cantonese was 'just enough' in HK, why are most, if not all schools in HK teaching Mandarin? Lots of local HK people speak Mandarin (maybe not very accurate but enough to be understood easily).

It just seems a rather restricted perspective. I will have to delve into this more deeply the next time someone says the same to me.

There are HKers learning Italian, French or Spanish...what's wrong with Mandarin??