An Honest review of ICLP (experienced self-study learners beware)

[mister4to1]

I spent my past summer at the International Chinese Language Program (ICLP) at National Taiwan University (NTU). I had HUGE expectations for this as it was my graduation trip and I am very passionate about learning Mandarin. In short it was a huge disappointment, and I write this post to inform others about my experience as it really is unacceptable.

They do not assess your level well
The way they assess you is with a brief oral test and a long written test. The result is that students are placed highly based on how well they did on the written test.
I was placed into Thought and Society (思想與社會). This was a wonderful class. My "core" teacher was wonderful and I learned quite a bit here. I can not say the same about the two other textbooks. I had told the instructors at the assessment day that I had already taken a textbook called Far East 3. They nonetheless put me in that class again (common practice apparently). I protested, saying that I had already taken it (two years prior) and my level was definitely much farther ahead of it (I had maintained studying the two years since taking the textbook). They said that it was too late to put me into any other class as they were all full and told me to take the class because it will help my speaking. Result? I did not learn anything, the class was a breeze, and my speaking did not improve (it is hard to improve when you are the top in the class, more on this below!)
While for some students a repeat of a textbook is warranted, it definitely is not for everyone. It felt like I was being ripped off of 1 out of 4 classes.

The problem of group classes
The other textbook's problem was a bit different. The material was great, the teacher was great, but this time the classmates' levels were not on my level. They spoke much, much slower than me - in this case they were the ones misplaced. It was at this time that I learned the problems of group classes. Many people like to say " you can learn a lot from your peers." If you have taken group language classes before, you know that this is not always true: you really learn from peers who speak better than you. So what happens if you are the best in the class, by a LOT? The result is that your speaking and listening actually get worse as they are more of a bad influence on your learning. I realize this sounds tough, but I am sure that many of you can relate. This led me to realize that advanced learners must take ONE on ONE classes... or pray that they are one of the worst speakers in a group class. At ICLP, I was unfortunate to be the top speaker in 3 of my classes. Thus my speaking did not improve very much.

Lack of emphasis on best education possible
This is the worst part of it. My one on one teacher (name not listed) ruined the whole experience for me. After the first week I realized that one of the exercises we did was simply "guessing" words - not really the most useful application of one on one time. I told her, and expected a good response since the whole point of one on one classes is for it to be more personalized right? She got very mad... and did not want to change the way she taught. I figured, this is ok, that I would give it more time. Then several weeks later, another incident happened but this time she became very defensive. She even started insulting me, my character, my personality, the way I talk, even the way I look. It was disrespectful. I never felt more disrespected in my life. I couldn't believe that this could happen at ICLP in NTU. I told the head instructors about this, but they said that I could not switch as there was no other teacher that could teach me. Mind you, I have had many, many teachers in the past and NEVER have I had a bad experience with them.

It is not the best education possible - I learned the hard way
In the end I did not learn very much. It dawned on me that paying $$$ for group classes really is not beneficial for advanced learners. Really you are paying 4 times more for 1/4 of the attention. Afterwards I did several weeks at Taipei Language Institute (1 on 1) and learned much much more in that time compared to the entirety of the ICLP program.

I do not recommend this program to any advanced learners, especially if your goal is to learn the most Mandarin possible. You'll make a lot of friends - but take this as your warning
Many people have great experiences there. However, you are paying a LOT to go there, and thus I view my experience as unacceptable - you should expect consistency and excellence for that kind of money. If it was the only option available that would be a different story, but considering that there are other options where you would learn more Mandarin as well as have more personalized classes, the only justification for choosing ICLP would be if you get a scholarship... or if you were like me and chose it due to its linkage to NTU.

ICLP is best for new learners who are not familiar with how to study Mandarin. This includes those who have only studied Mandarin in university. If you have done any form of self-studying before on your own or have ever seriously studied Mandarin, you may find this to be a great disappointment.

Good luck

[edelweis]

thank you for the review. You said this was your graduation trip, did you major in Chinese? What kind of other Chinese classes did you experience before and after ICLP?

[mister4to1]

I didn't major in Chinese, but I had a Taiwanese girlfriend which led me to want to start studying Mandarin.

 

I had taken one year of classes at University, as well as studied abroad one year at NTU.

After ICLP I have been working and thus hadn't had the opportunity to take any more courses~

[edelweis]

Thank you for your answer.

Can I ask you about your experience at NTU - were your classes in English?

Did you also have Chinese classes?

Did you enjoy your time at NTU?

[mister4to1]

NTU is a great school to exchange at - they offer many, many classes in English.

 

I did take Chinese classes - but of course they were more for making friends (you can learn some, but not as much as 1 on 1's)

 

It was the time of my life~

[Guest realmayo]

I also did the summer course at ICLP and in fact studied the same main textbook as the OP. I think the review is fair but I have a hunch that ICLP's downsides are more relevant on the summer course than they would be on the full academic year.

 

Finding the right level to put students into is going to be difficult anywhere. Over the three-term academic year it's probably not such a problem because by the second term you'd have evened out some of your abilities and they'd know better where to place you. But more of a problem on a single eight-week course. On the strength of the reading test, I went into the 思想與社會 class which was perfect for my reading: I enjoyed that class a lot and found reading Chinese way, way easier by the end of it than I had at the start. So that alone made it time (if not money) well-spent for me.

 

But I'd chosen ICLP because they pride themselves on how much speaking students are required to do in class. Unfortunately for me, my ability to read reasonably complex texts was always a lot higher than my ability to speak on complex subjects. The other three in my class seemed in a similar position (we must have been grouped together for a reason) but the result was I didn't improve my speaking a great deal: I was never engaged in discussing the texts, instead it had to be more question-and-answer. It's interesting that the OP was in an opposite position, too-good speaking ability for the textbooks being studied, and also felt his/her speaking ability didn't improve much either.

 

I think it's fair to say the emphasis on spoken Chinese at ICLP is much higher than in most other courses where you've got 10-20+ students in a class. I also think that if time and money was no object and if I had spent a year there, I'd have no complaints: the classes seem well-structured and (for me) my four teachers were all either good or extremely good.

 

But for just a two-month intensive course, where your priority is to improve spoken Chinese in a short period of time, and especially if your speaking and writing abilities are out of sync, I don't think the course is ideal. Not the end of the world for me, my reading improved immensely, but the next two-month period I get to spend studying in China will be one-on-one classes somewhere.

[edelweis]

@mister4to1: thanks. Well, feel free to write reviews of NTU and/or TLI might be interesting too.

 

@realmayo: do you intend to take 2 months off every year to study in China?