Advice on noisy neighbors

[JesseMcNick]

Hi all,

 

First time posting here, thanks for all the great advice and anecdotes on the forum - they make me laugh and help a lot!

 

A bit about myself - I'm a Canadian living in HK, splitting my time between here and Shanghai where I go occasionally to work with colleagues at 上海交通大學. I have an apartment in Hong Kong with my significant other and we have been struggling with how to deal with our neighbours. They are from the mainland and well, have a lot of annoying habits that we are frustrated with. Need some advice here!

 

Our building has just two units on each floor and so we are just a few feet from their front door. Now, this probably wouldn't have been a problem if they were considerate people, but they are definitely not. They usually leave their front door open when they are home (god knows why) which means we can usually hear everything that goes on in their apartment.

 

So business gatherings for the wife who apparently sells cosmetics in HK (based on the boxes that are piled in the common hallway blocking access to the fire hose ) or their baby crying or horrible music playing. You know, just standard things that mainland people tend to put up with / not even notice but annoy other people. I work at home, and so it's a real annoyance to hear a baby crying or a business gathering (read a bunch of see lai jabbering away) a few feet from my desk.

 

The question is how to deal with this?? I want to go talk to them but the husband is quite an ugly looking character. He gives the stinkeye to you whenever you pass in the hallway and just seems to be pissed off all the time. My significant other and I both think that they are likely to react badly if we directly talk to them, and I don't want to get into an escalating war of words with these people, I just want them to close their damn door!!

 

One idea is to blast some loud hip-hop music during the day, to get them into the habit of closing their door? But I don't like the idea of being unreasonable to stop another person being unreasonable, but I feel it might be one of the only reasonable ways?

 

Any ideas folks?

 

我也會看懂中文，so feel free to reply in Chinese if you have some untranslatable wisdom!

 

Happy holidays and thanks in advance for your !

 

Jesse

[roddy]

I think leaving the front door open is fairly common, just to get more of a breeze going. 

 

What's the building management like? Business activity, and storing stock in communal areas, might be something they can take action on. 

[Shelley]

You might be able to glean some good advice from this topic from a couple of years ago, it may still be valid advice http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/41273-how-should-i-deal-with-a-noisy-neighbor-in-shanghai/

 

And welcome to the forum

[JesseMcNick]

Roddy, thanks for the reply. Yeah, getting the breeze going has been cited by significant other as a reason why they are doing this. We live next to a busy road, so they may not want to open the windows due to the noise...

 

We have tried to talk to our agent who manages the place, but unfortunately most rules in this building are apparently not enforced. Also although our agent is friendly, he's a bit 丟三落四... so we'll see how it goes, maybe he'll help, maybe not. He also suggested to get the fire department to inspect - certainly they must be ignoring a lot of fire rules that seem to be enforced in most other places in HK. Problem is our building is less well policed and the management is not really that present... people also smoke in the hallways etc.

 

Shelley, thanks for the reply too, it's hopefully not going to escalate to the level that that post got to!!

[889]

It seems to me you've got a couple of chances to ask them to close their door; preferably asking the wife when the husband isn't in, and preferably your S.O. doing the asking if she's Chinese. In hotels at least, I find folks usually go along, but yes, there is a certain rare sort, usually male, who deeply takes offence at being asked however politely to do or not do anything no matter how slight. And although common sense might suggest otherwise, if you talk with the neighbours I'd suggest keeping it in English, if they can handle it.

 

After that, what else except move? Maybe a much thicker and well-sealed door on your flat. Maybe noise-cancelling headsets. As to retaliating with your own noise, they won't understand your motive and it will be useless. Trust me.

 

The lower you are on the housing scale in Hong Kong, the more likely you're going to encounter problems. If not this particular one, then something else. Move to a higher class block and you'll get better and more responsive management -- the cleaners will quickly remove anything left around in the hall -- but there will still be occasional problems of renovation noise, kids jumping on Pogo sticks upstairs, loud music, etc. Go higher class still and you'll get piano practice, over and over.

 

It's not all noise, either. There are the neighbours with door gods and incense. And those who love salted fish.

 

If you need peace and quiet, Hong Kong is not the place for you.

[JesseMcNick]

889 - thanks for the advice. Noise per se doesn't bother me, it's more the inconsiderate nature of the noise! But yes we will see how it goes, and maybe talking to the wife on her own might be better - actually with the exception of her see lai friends, it's usually much better when she's around (mainly because their baby seems happier!!)

[889]

As an aside, has anyone actually tried to use noise-cancelling headphones to deal with street clamour and noisy neighbours? I have the impression they work best against a constant drone, like jet engine roar, but have never been sure how well they work, if at all, against more common daily-life noise.

[Pingfa]

^ I guess it would largely depend on the headphones. I bought some two months or so ago that work very well for blocking out the sound of noisy neighbours. People get drunk pretty much daily where I live >.>

I have to contend with loud chanting, singing, laughing, music, etc on more or less a daily basis.

I can hear muffled voices when I put them on, and they're drowned out completely once I turn up the volume.

 

Of course, no headphones can cancel out vibrations.

[JenniferW]

Have you asked for advice from Chinese friends in HK? From living in the PRC, I know that leaving the front door open can be completely normal and I think not just for the benefit of improving the airflow through the apartment. Do other people in the block do it at all, do you know? In other words, are you in the majority or minority?

 

You can't really win as regards the crying of a small child. Some children are just fairly noisy, and it doesn't always continue like that. You could maybe build up a neighbourly conversation around the child. In fact, overall, I think you'll only make real progress if you do build some sort of relationship with these neighbours. How about inviting her in for tea? 

 

And long term, who's going to be living there longer - you or them? I remember reading once that the Chinese and Spanish are the noisiest cultures - and after living in both, I'd say that's true. Maybe moving might be an easier option.

[陳德聰]

I think you could probably deal with some of the issue with a little introspection re: the "ugly character" and the mainland/HK business. Last I checked, babies from everywhere around the world cry quite loudly. The boxes in the hall, you can simply make up a better reason than "the fire hose is here" because honestly, only management would really go after that and it seems like yours won't. Maybe "my grandmother almost tripped when she visited the other day". As for door open vs door closed, you can ask if there is a schedule for these business gatherings and if they might just close the door during those times since they coincide with your busiest time of the day in your office. Essentially it needs to look like you're compromising even though it is affecting you so that when they refuse you can pull the "wow you're so inconsiderate" card and they can't just call you uptight.

[JesseMcNick]

Hey Jennifer and 陳， thanks for your replies. I agree that it's important to build up a relationship before trying to address any of this and that certainly is not good to start off on a confrontational note, that's exactly why I wanted to get some advice here and vent a bit, and it helps really, so thanks for taking the time to give me your two cents.

Agree with you both that kids being noisy is not really something I can control per se, but I just want them to close the door. But certainly if I've learned anything from the other post on the forum about the noisy neighbors in Shanghai it's that things can get out of control quickly if you approach it wrong.

Although honestly as far as I can tell they're the only ones with their doors open during the day - I usually walk down the stairs and have never seen anyone else's door open.

[roddy]

Tell them you disturbed some dodgy-looking character sticking his head into their apartment and looking like he was about to steal stuff, so you chased him off. Instantly you are Hero Neighbour and they start keeping their door shut. 

[889]

If they keep their door open in Hong Kong, then nine-to-ten they have a burglar gate across it.

As to making friends with your neighbours, Hong Kong follows big-city rules, under which you don't formally make much acquaintance with your neighbours, probably because you already know too much about them informally, and vice versa.

If the OP wants to go about this in a more local way, then perhaps he could invite some Triad friends over for an evening of loud, boisterous drinking, leaving his door open, of course. Then the next day casually make the request to the neighbours to close their door.

[dwq]

Can you find something inconspicuous but bad smelling and put it in the hallway?

[Shelley]

A story I once heard was of an unpleasant separating of a couple leading to the man stuffing the hollow tube of the curtain pole with frozen prawns, which of course didn't stay frozen for long. it got so bad the woman moved out and only because the new tenants decided to change the decor that they found the remains of the prawns.

 

So maybe find some where to put some bad fish or something as dwq suggests where only shutting the door solves the problem, but of course the whole block will smell too.

 

What I would actually like to do but wouldn't is just shut their door every time it was left open for more than 5 minutes, maybe they might get the message.

 

Although I doubt it, it may just be something you have to live with.

[langxia]

 

So business gatherings for the wife who apparently sells cosmetics in HK (based on the boxes that are piled in the common hallway blocking access to the fire hose ) or their baby crying or horrible music playing. You know, just standard things that mainland people tend to put up with / not even notice but annoy other people.

 

Never seen an open doors on the mainland. I think the problem here is not mainland not mainland but that you have got a business running next to your place, businesses leave their door open.

[abcdefg]

...a bunch of see lai jabbering away

 

I just now found this thread and had to look up what this "see lai" business means. Seems to me that your cause is a lost one if you are calling your neighbors nasty names in your head at the same time you are seeking a solution.

 

Sort of: "Oh, maybe I will first establish a warm working relationship with those damned niggers/kikes/wops/chinks/spics next door, and then get them to change their living habits."

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=C-lai

[JesseMcNick]

First of all, @abcdefg, see lai honestly doesn't have quite the same implications as the racial epithets you wrote. It doesn't imply a specific race, it's only because of its origin in Cantonese that it's associated with Chinese people in American culture. So really you should think of it just as like housewife/househusband, and it really is not something you can use to discriminate against an entire group of people like the terms you used.

 

Fortunately, I haven't had to use any of the "creative" suggestions offered (i.e. Triad friends intimidating the neighbors, putting rotten shrimp in the hallways and faking a burglary), and probably all for the better. I once accidentally had shrimp rot in an apartment I was renting, and the landlords said it was one of the most godawful smells they had ever experienced. Fortunately they were nice people and didn't hold a grudge... all that to say that I never recommend putting rotten shrimp within a mile from where you live.

 

So some progress seems to have happened yesterday. There was another "business meeting" yesterday which involved a lot of chattering as usual, and one of my neighbour's colleagues was smoking in the hallway. Actually, I had spoken with her on a previous occasion to say "no smoking" in the hallway, so this time she seem to have remembered, and made a beeline for the apartment when I came out. After this, they actually kept the door closed for most of the rest of the meeting, which I think was the first time since we moved in!

 

It must have been some combination of me speaking to the colleague about smoking and maybe some loud music I played and some dirty looks we gave the colleagues when they were really loud. So I was joking with my S.O. that I should just set up a chair in the hallway and sit out there with a beer when they're having their meeting.

[abcdefg]

Good. Thanks for explaining. I didn't know. Glad that your situation is better.