Learning to Write

[艾墨本]

Hello all,

 

I've spent the last few months really focusing on my listening comprehension and speaking ability. This was mostly since I just moved to China and it makes my life possible. 

 

Over the last month I've spent a lot more time reading and reviewing a lot of previous vocabulary. At this point I'd guestimate my level at between intermediate high and advanced low, or hsk 4/5. I can read most HSK materials with relative ease and much of HSK 5 material, so long as it's not a strange topic (I'm basing this off of my time spent on Chairman's Bao). But I can also comfortably read a book like 三毛's 《撒哈拉的故事》 .

 

So that's where I'm at. Where I want to go is to start working on my writing. As it stands I basically write Chinese as a direct mirror of how I speak. I don't really know where to start or how to intentionally improve. Unlike speaking which had a constant feedback loop based on whether or not I was understood, writing doesn't have any instant feedback. 

 

Previously, I though this meant studying grammar, but have found directly studying grammar is far to tedious for me. Additionally, knowing about grammar doesn't seem to turn into being able to use the grammar. In my head, I'd like to imagine myself being able to write proper paragraphs. As it stands my writing seems to be fixed in sentence length ideas, probably a direct result of wechat.

 

My question then is, how can I being to improve my writing so that I can express complex thoughts in it with understandable grammar?

What goals should be set for writing that are measurable, sustainable, and achievable?

What have you found doesn't work and should be very much avoided?

[anonymoose]

Try writing short paragraphs about things. Post them on italki to get corrections and feedback, or since you are in China, just ask your friends/colleagues for corrections. That would probably be more useful as it's easier to ask follow-up questions.

 

If you can't think of anything to write about, then you could always try translating from English (or whatever your native language is) into Chinese. I actually prefer translating because it forces you to move out of your language comfort zone, and at the same time reduces the stress of having to think of what to write about.

 

Also, make note of useful sentence structures as you come across them in your reading, and try to incorporate them into your writing.

 

At the end of the day though, it all boils down to practice.

[dementior]

your answer is lang-8.com

but you need the discipline, having the tools in place but not commiting yourself will lead nowhere. You will get normally feedback within a day, but you have to understand that not all corrections are precise.

About what to write, I suggest you use random selection of structures and vocab and write a piece based on them. The structures and vocab will force your brain to think about a topic to write about, where you can use them together in a logical fashion.

[艾墨本]

@dementior

Thanks for the website recommendation. I've already signed up. You're also spot on with the bit about "having the tools in place but not committing yourself," which is a path I often lead. That's why I asked the question: What goals should be set for writing that are measurable, sustainable, and achievable? If you have any suggestion for this, please share.

 

@anonymoose

I didn't think of just doing translation as an exercise of writing practice. This sounds like a lot of fun to me. I'll have to try this out. Any type of text you've found particularly good for doing this sort of exercise; Children's books, new paper, online posts, etc.?

[dementior]

hi again!

The goals depend on the time you can spend writing... If you are not used to write every day you can start with 2/3 pieces a week. No need to make them long, I would suggest about 200 characters. And try to apply what you have learnt recently (vocab and phrases). I would say it is important that you try to push yourself when you write in terms of difficulty and quality more than quantity.

 

Equally important is to spend time reviewing the feedback you get. The best is to get feedback from 3 people which allows you to distinguish what is clearly a grammatical error or misuse of a word from style. Moreover, you will get the chance to know how to write naturally, since some corrections do not necessarily mean mistakes, but natives might have a different way to express themselves.

 

If you get comfortable with this stage you can write longer pieces or more days a week. As an alternative to creative writing, you can combine this exercise with article summary, like the hsk6 writing section. Give yourself time to read an artice and then write a summary without looking too much at it.

[anonymoose]

Any type of text you've found particularly good for doing this sort of exercise; Children's books, new paper, online posts, etc.?

 

It depends on what your aims are and what you're interested in. For example, academic writing is going to be quite different to creative writing.

 

I've found commentary on current affairs to be quite good as it is not specialised and it is half way between oral and very formalised language.

 

Try a few different genres and see what works best for you.

[Guest realmayo]

I just wondered how 艾墨本 got on with this. My writing skills are atrocious, I've barely written any Chinese ever, and need to improve, it's way too far behind where it should be.

[imron]

What sort of writing are you looking to do?  Actual handwriting or is typing also acceptable?

[Guest realmayo]

I meant 'the process of expressing stuff by writing' rather than 'handwriting'. Typing is in fact preferable.

 

I can't think of a single word to express one versus the other... which actually was a problem when doing a quick search of the forums earlier.

[889]

I'd suggest you read and read a lot at the level and style you're looking to master. That probably means not literature but newspaper articles and such. As well, that probably means reading at a level well below what you can read, but the point is to read what you can reasonably expect to write at this stage. You need to get that simple style and phrasing echoing in your mind.

Keep in mind that good writing is really hard, in any language. There's no shortage of native speakers who can't put together a paragraph of good English, remember.

[Guest realmayo]

To be honest, that may be good advice but I'll have to find an alternative because there's no way I'm prepared to read material written as basic as my own writing aspirations currently lie!

[艾墨本]

As an update: I didn't find Lang-8 very useful as I wasn't able to turn suggestion into practice. Journaling also didn't work for me for the same reason that journaling in English doesn't, I just don't enjoy it. 

 

What helped was preparing for the HSK 5 and working on the writing section. A tutor had me pre-write the answers to who, what, when, where, why, and how, but in Chinese, for each response. It helped tremendously. I practiced writing about a dozen paragraphs and got feedback on several of them. There was noticeable progress. 

 

Besides that, I have not found any writing methods that work for me. I'm just enjoying focusing on increasing my vocabulary and reading, at the moment. I'm reading 活着 and studying the vocabulary, while also reading 许三观卖血记 casually and not looking up any words. 

 

I guess, as my life doesn't require writing in Chinese, motivating writing is difficult. Maybe once I'm in school again and have a writing class I'll be able to improve on my writing.

[murrayjames]

@艾墨本 how is your writing now? Did reading books in Chinese make you a better writer?

 

[艾墨本]

7 hours ago, murrayjames said:

how is your writing now? Did reading books in Chinese make you a better writer?

 

When writing my thesis, my thesis writing got a lot better due to my reading other academic journals that used the same style of language I was being required to write in. This was an active and intentional process. In that sense, my guess was accurate that my writing would improve as a result of reading, but I would hypothesize this only the case because I was also practicing writing.

 

That said, from an HSK standpoint, my HSK score taken after one semester and taken after three semesters showed a lot of growth in all categories... except writing. I have read quite a few books in Chinese at this point and it has helped my reading comprehension and a little with my writing ability.

 

My experience, though, has just again showed that oft repeated advice on these forums: practice when you want to learn. I practiced academic writing which did not carry over to story-telling writing needed for the HSK.