Group conversations - Difficult to manage?

[davoosh]

Hello,

 

This is a question mostly aimed at those who have a good level of speaking and listening ability already. My question is, can you keep up and join in group conversations?

 

When I was in China, my speaking reached the level where I felt confident enough to speak to people about most every day topics and some specialised topics that interest me, however this usually only worked in one-on-one conversations or conversations with a few people with whom I was already familiar. If I was invited to a group dinner or outing, I would often become completely lost and feel downhearted about my speaking/listening ability.

 

Of course, group conversations pose extra challenges because there are constant cultural references and in-jokes and recent events being brought up which a non-native or foreigner may be unaware of. What surprised me was that, even though my Spanish is OK, it has mostly been a 'passive' language for me, but I was much more able to join in conversations and make appropriate comments and remarks after a short time in Spain, something which I found almost impossible in Chinese.

 

How does everyone else deal with this? Am I making it seem more difficult than it really is? Any comments/anecdotes/study advice welcome!

[abcdefg]

In Kunming, I'm involved in group conversations a lot. Participation always involves some blunders and a willingness to play along without understanding everything that is said. Sometimes I try to fake it, sometimes I don't. Stumbling sometimes makes me the butt of a joke, but that's OK; it's the price of trying.  

 

Don't be discouraged if you don't get all of what is said. Comprehension gradually improves, just like it did for one-to-one conversation.

[anonymoose]

I agree that group conversation is harder than one-to-one. In one-to-one conversation, after the other person has stopped talking, they will naturally wait for your response. If you are a bit slow, it doesn't matter. In a group, though, other native speakers will often be able to chip in a lot quicker than you, which often takes the conversation off in a different direction, and you are left constantly catching up.

 

Also, you shouldn't underestimate the significance of cultural background and in-jokes and so on. Even conversing with native English speakers, they may make references which I don't get, but at least I know that's what they're doing and dismiss it. For example, someone may make a reference to a film. I may not have watched the film, and may not understand the reference, but if they mention a title or a character, it's clear that they're referencing something. Had it been in Chinese, I may have been totally lost and wonder what on earth it was they had been talking about (and then miss the next part of the conversation because I'm still trying to figure out the last part...).

 

I wouldn't feel too discouraged if I were you. Just keep working on your Chinese and keep practicing, and it'll get better over time.

[Flickserve]

Absolutely harder. There might be news events in the past, references to advertisements on TV or past TV programs, presenters, singers etc

Not really sure about the comparison to your Spanish but to me, Chinese humour was/is on a different wavelength.

[Michael H]

I have trouble with group conversations in my native language. :-( So I wouldn't feel bad if you have difficulty with this in Chinese. I'm not sure what to suggest. Maybe try asking questions more.

[eion_padraig]

I can manage group conversations with up to 3 - 4 other people speaking Mandarin, but I find once it goes to 5+ people I find it's nearly impossible to really understand.

Again, the more you do it the better you'll get a doing it.

[Demonic_Duck]

You can further categorize the difficulty levels of group conversations:

1. Group conversations in which you're the center of attention
2. Group conversations in which you're not the center of attention, but one or more other participants will make an active effort to involve you
3. Group conversations in which no-one will make an effort to involve you unless you find an opportunity to make yourself heard

Naturally, type 1 is the easiest (almost as easy as a 1-on-1 conversation) and type 3 the hardest.

 

When you have a type 3 group conversation involving unfamiliar people and topics, it can be a struggle to even keep up with what's being said, let alone contribute in any meaningful way. I don't think there's any shortcut to learning this skill, other than by experience socialising with large groups of Chinese people.

[davoosh]

I'm not in China now so I have very little opportunity for large group conversations, but I would find myself avoiding them because I'd feel left out or bored due to lack of understanding which creates a vicious circle. But I suppose it's good to step out of the comfort zone.

 

Regarding the comparison with Spanish (or most other European languages), I think the shared cultural base makes it a lot easier to feel 'part' of a group conversation. At least in my case, even if I wasn't understanding 100% everything in Spain, I'd often feel confident enough to join in knowing that the group would 'get' what I was saying.

 

I think a true test of fluency (at least the speaking/listening aspect) is being able to fully participate in group conversations with unfamiliar people and topics!

[Demonic_Duck]

I think a true test of fluency (at least the speaking/listening aspect) is being able to fully participate in group conversations with unfamiliar people and topics!

 

For what it's worth, "fluency" simply means that your use of language is "flowing". I don't think it's a useful term as a level of language proficiency (elementary/intermediate/advanced/"fluent"), because you can be very fluent in one situation (say 1-on-1 conversations about everyday topics) and very unfluent in another (a heated debate between a group of physicists about quantum entanglement).

 

You can also be extremely proficient in a language but still very unfluent, for example if you have a stutter (even in your native language).

[davoosh]

I was using fluency with the extended conventional meaning i.e. very high level of proficiency (in speaking/listening as demonstrated by proficiency in group conversations in this case) not the etymological meaning...

[mouse]

First rule of language club: Do not talk about fluency.

[Pokarface]

I've been learning Chinese for almost 2 years. And started noticing that joining group conversations is the hardest thing to do. Also eavesdropping into others conversations where you are not involved (not that I intentionally try to) is really difficult.

Just like you, I haven't spoken Esperanto in such a long time and recently I had a conversation in that language and it felt as fresh as if I just had mastered Esperanto today. The same concept applies for my Portuguese, I NEVER study it anymore and I can join conversations without problems.

 

I think there is a reason why people believe Chinese is the most difficult language

I really don't have any advice as I haven't mastered group conversations, but I keep increasing my vocabulary since part of the problem might be my limited vocab and lack of borrowed words from other language used in Chinese (unlike Esperanto and Portuguese which use a huge pool of words and sounds from my native English and Spanish)

[valikor]

Group conversations (especially in a social context) are always the most difficult for me. I can get through a few hours of meetings yet feel lost within 2 minutes when I go to lunch with some colleagues. 

 

I think D. Duck above put it well. I wouldn't include a Yoda reference/imitation in a chat with a Chinese friend, but would easily make such jokes with American friends. The Chinese around you are doing the same for you. They'll also stop and explain/clarify when you don't understand in a 1:1 context, but not in a group.