Living costs Kunming

[SirSir]

Hi everyone.

I have some vague planes to move to Kunming and focusing on learning mandarin for maybe a year.

So my pretty normal question is obviously: How much would it be per month if I live a simple life?

I want a fresh, clean apartment. Western style bathroom and pretty good internet speed. Around 35 square meters is Enough.

I like to cook and would make most of My meals with groceries i bought in the stores/markets.

A few nights a week i would go out and have a dinner at decent places. Nothing special, but not street food. Like italian food or some places where you sit down and enjoy the meal. I like to workout and maybe do some other sport, so that might also be a cost.

I would just like to live in Southern China for maybe a year, getting better in the language and just relax. It is all matter of money. I have read other posts in different places about the living costs and there is a huge difference in what people estimate. For me, i just need the basics. But not poor living conditions.

I hope someone can help me out.

[eion_padraig]

SirSir,

 

abcdefg will be along in a bit to help you out with this question. I think he's got the simple living in Kunming thing down.

 

Have fun, Kunming's a nice little city. 

 

Eion

[abcdefg]

Haha, Eion_Padraig, yes this post just now caught my eye.

 

How much would it be per month if I live a simple life?

 

Let's deal with lodging first. But I must ask you some questions before proceeding:

 

1. Do you speak Chinese? In other words, can you function in a neighborhood where there is no English on the streets or in the stores and restaurants?

2. Do you need to be in a certain part of the city for the sake of your job or your school?

3. Do you want to be near other foreigners for social purposes?

 

For me, i just need the basics. But not poor living conditions.

 

This is a difficult question. I live in an older walk-up apartment that supplies the basics very well in my own opinion, but if any of my American family or friends were to come for a visit they would think it is shabby and inadequate. I feel very lucky to have found such a fine apartment, but they would pity me because their standards are different.

 

You probably need to decide up front whether you want to be in a newer, high-rise building or in an old walk-up apartment. The former is more likely to have a western toilet; the latter is more likely to have a Chinese bathroom. Mine has the latter; it's very small with a shower hung above the squat toilet in the floor. I also have solar water heating and consider that adequate most of the time. But clouds and rain mean no hot shower.

 

I once lived in an apartment that was 40 square meters, 40平方米。It was an "efficiency" in which the living room and bedroom were one. Didn't like it; felt cramped and very awkward to have guests visit. Kitchen was minimal. If you are intent on cooking most of your meals, such a small kitchen might not be suitable. For example, it had no refrigerator.

 

You will need to decide whether you want a furnished apartment or one which is not. The main factor influencing that decision would be the duration of your stay. If you only stay a year, it will probably be wasteful to buy all your own furniture and appliances.

 

And by the way, where are you living now? Are you elsewhere in China?

[SirSir]

Hi and thanks for the reply.

Seems like you know Kunming.

1. I can read chinese, but My listening and talking skill is not enough yet. I Will try to learn. So, basically no on this question at this moment.

2. I guess i Will just be studying, dont Know where and how yet. I dont mind if i have to take a bus, ride a bicycle or walk a bit.

3. Not so important. The city isnt that big (?) so as long as i can get to the places where people Hang out without spending too much time it Will be ok.

35-40 平方米 is no problem. I have experienced that and dont need anything bigger. I would rather rent a fully furnished place than do the interior decorating myself. I dont need anything fancy... But i really need hot water shower and western toilet, thats just My minimum standard.

So, what can i expect in an older apartment house with those standards? I Know it might be hard to say, but just a ball park figure.

And how much would it be for an apartment in a newer style building?

I'm in Europe right Know. I'm planning to take a leap from my job and see what happens from there. I would rather live in a relatively cheap, small and warm city like Kunming than the mega cities in the east. Have you lived in Kunming for a long time? How do you like it?

[abcdefg]

I've lived in Kunming most of the last 7 or 8 years. Initially only a few months at a time, and lately almost all year long. Like it quite a bit.

 

My apartment is 70 square meters and costs 1,800 Yuan per month. It is furnished (家电 and 家具 provided by the landlord.) I pay all utilities and other expenses, such as internet and a fee for the TV set-top-box 机顶盒。It's in an old building, without elevators.

 

The apartment complex is in an older neighborhood that is not very affluent. Seldom see other foreigners when out and about. Doubt that any live nearby. My place is on the fourth floor. Things sometimes wear out or break and must be repaired or replaced. (Plumbing, electric, gas.) I bear part of those costs.

 

Three or four years ago I lived in a new apartment complex not far away. Paid 2,400 Yuan per month for a small furnished apartment, 40 平方米。It had a water heater and a western toilet 马桶。

 

Kunming is pretty big (5 or 6 million people) and traffic is chronically slow. Best to first find your school or work, then look for an apartment nearby. Not the other way around. Figure out essential bus routes and maybe even look into the underground/metro for some routine transportation.

 

Kunming is warm in summer, but never brutally hot. Pleasant in the evening and at night. It also gets cold in winter, but seldom snows more than a few centimeters or stays under freezing for too many days at a time. Houses don't have insulation or heating as a rule, so warm clothes are needed in winter, whether one is inside or out.

 

People generally have a mistaken mental picture of Kunming because it is based on internet articles and Lonely Planet fluff that is 10 or even 20 years out of date. It seems that many information websites just copy from each other.

 

Cost of living has climbed considerably from the "good old days" and my Chinese friends tell me that it has increased substantially faster than their wages. If you come thinking that Kunming is the "promised land," you may be disappointed.

 

Presently Kunming housing is a landlord's market. One can read about overbuilding in the newspapers, and indeed it has taken place. But most of those apartments are not available for rent; they are being held empty as long-term capital investments by out-of-town development consortiums. Demand still outstrips supply.

 

Apartment hunting needs to be in person after arrival. Usually cannot be done effectively long-distance.

[Simon_CH]

From my experience there is a huge difference between what European and Chinese nationals consider acceptable standards when it comes to living. Many people before coming here think they can do with a basic apartment, only to find out that their minimum standards are already upscale, or "luxury" places for which they'd have to pay a premium, often not too far from the rent they paid back in Europe. You may not be among them, it's just something to bear in mind, abcdefg put it better than I could, just to emphasize this point. 

 

Secondly the weather in Kunming is not nearly as great as some people who traveled there in Summer think it is, it's quite uncomfortable and chilly in Winter, with almost no heating and very poor insulation, just like many cities in Central and Southern China, the city of eternal spring it most certainly is not. 

 

I don't know what the rental situation is like these days, but I researched on it a few years ago, and due to the popularity of the city among both Chinese and foreigners there weren't that many reasonably priced apartments in good location with acceptable standards - a bit cheaper than coastal 1st and 2nd tier cities, sure, but not that cheap really.  

 

Now I don't want to be a naysayer, I quite like Kunming and visit at least once a year or more, but visiting and living are two different things, something I'd bear in mind before you focus only on Kunming. 

[abcdefg]

Agree completely with Simon's points, above. Kunming is a nice place to visit and to live, but it's not picture-book quaint, perpetually sunny, and dirt cheap. It snowed two days last week.

 

One feature I particularly like is the easy availability of teachers and schools. One feature I don't like so much is the prevalence of local dialects in daily speech. 

[StChris]

I've never been to Kunming and I have to admit that, in my imagination, Kunming is that "picture-book quaint, perpetually sunny, and dirt cheap" city described in the old guidebooks. A good friend of mine visited around 7 or 8 years ago and always encouraged me to go and study there. I always thought of Kunming as the Chiang Mai of China: a chilled, small and cheap city surrounded by beautiful and easily accessible mountainous areas populated by colourful minority peoples. In the end I chose Harbin, but I've always had the idea to go and study in Kunming someday. 

 

 The rental figures quoted by abcdefg sound pretty similar to Harbin and are still cheap when compared to the big 1st and 2nd tier cities. Plus in Kunming your within easy travelling distance to Vietnam, Laos and Thailand, which are probably more popular as travel destinations than Russia and North Korea 

 

Apart from Kunming, I've always considered Chengdu, Nanjing, or Kaohsiung as  possible study destinations. While in Harbin I heard that the rent in Sanya (Hainan) was pretty cheap due to a glut in empty apartment buildings. While it sounds nice to live by a tropical beach, I had a friend who found it a bit boring due to China's lack of a real "beach culture". All in all, despite abcdefg and Simon_CH's somewhat qualified praises/criticisms, Kunming still sounds like a pretty good choice for the OP.

[abcdefg]

All in all, despite abcdefg and Simon_CH's somewhat qualified praises/criticisms, Kunming still sounds like a pretty good choice for the OP.

 

Chris -- I agree completely, and think you are right. Kunming is a pretty good choice for someone wanting to study Chinese and live a good life while doing it. Since people often arrive here with unrealistic expectations, I tend to try to not be too glowing in my descriptions and comments. But I didn't mean to discourage the OP.

 

I like your observation about it being close to some other attractive places. It's true; I can get on a plane and be in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia or Vietnam in only an hour or two. Kuala Lumpur is also 4 hours away nonstop thanks to an Air Asia link. KL is a hub, and I can change planes there and easily get to most of Indonesia, including the island of Bali.

 

Without a doubt, Kunming has a lot going for it.

[SirSir]

Thanks again.

Well, From what I have read here and other places I think it sound good for me. I dont have any naive fantasies about a perfect place. Im just looking for a place where i can stay for a while and just take it easy. Study, read books, maybe do some writing and meet new people. Maybe Kunming can be that place. It seems like a good option at this moment.

How is the Expat scene?

[abcdefg]

You're welcome.

 

How is the Expat scene?

 

There is a lively expat scene from what I've heard, but I don't know much about it. All my friends are Chinese and I never hang out at the bars and seldom go to foreigner-oriented restaurants. 

 

Most expats live around the two main universities, in the vicinity of Green Lake. It's a nice area, but tends to be kind of expensive. I go weeks in my present neighborhood without seeing any foreign faces.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm turning up my nose at the expat element in Kunming, but I'm older and live a simple, stable, low-key life. Not much of a night person to boot.

 

GoKunming is a pretty good source for information about the expat scene. You might enjoy browsing there some. Here's a link:

 

http://www.gokunming.com/en/

[eion_padraig]

SirSir,

 

I spent several days last April in Kunming and more recently I've talked with a number of foreigners who live in Kunming in the last few months. There was a ultimate frisbee team that came from Kunming who I hung out with at a tournament in Xiamen this fall. 

 

Based on what I saw and heard, it sounds like the foreign community is heavy on students and English teachers. There are some long term foreign residents who have figured out how to settle in. There are some folks making craft beer and some folks with foreign restaurants. But it sounds like you don't have much in the way of foreign businesses that employ foreigners to work on long term projects. So the long term foreign residents are in the minority. It tends to be on the younger side (20's to 30 years of age).

 

Lots of young Chinese going out to the bars and restaurants near Yunnan University in the neighborhood just north of Green lake 翠湖, but that seems to be where you'll find foreigners going out a lot too.

 

 

Eion