What is "polite" and "impolite" to Chinese?

[Friday]

Over the past year, while reading student essays of various topics, I've often encountered lines such as "we Chinese are more polite" or "foreigners don't know how to be polite".

I have observed a few foreigners behaving rudely, at least by the standards of my home country, but 99% of the foreigners I've seen seemed rather civilized, especially in those areas where I see many foreigners, such as Shanghai.

 

Are there some particular ways that foreigners behave or speak in China that comes across as rude to Chinese? Are there some behaviors that an American might think is perfectly acceptable, but that a Chinese will feel is rude?

[Simon_CH]

I found when talking to more upper middle class, "old" families that the majority of Chinese behave rudely according to their standard. Many things I previously considered "normal" in China (talking loudly, talking with food in your mouth, spitting on the floor, littering and so forth) were traditionally considered very rude behavior, and that etiquette is apparently still being taught in those families. A friend of mine from a traditional Beijing family would get a smack on her fingers whenever she opened her mouth while chewing or wanted to talk during dinner, or even made an audible chewing or slurping sound. I suspect that this will slowly trickle down the social classes again, after all there are also massive government campaigns for people to behave "more civilized", so the current situation in China doesn't seem to be to the government's satisfaction as well. 

 

After talking to a lot of different people from different backgrounds I can only conclude that standards of behavior and rudeness are wildly divergent in China, probably much more so than in most other countries where standards are more established, for lack of a better word. As for foreigners being rude, I think many "adapt" to China in a negative way, and react to rudeness with rudeness. It often can't be avoided, but when Chinese have very lofty ideas of how an English gentleman should behave, and then see an annoyed Englishman pushing people away to get out of a metro train that is probably where the perception of foreigners being rude comes from. 

[Chris Two Times]

I've also heard "we Chinese are more moral than you Americans" and "we Chinese care more about our families than you Americans", so I've simply responded with a  and then gone and focused my remaining brainpower on studying a few more 汉字 instead of attempting to come up with a response to such tripe.

 

I apologize for this being not very helpful and not directly addressing the OP's inquiry--just my knee-jerk reaction.

 

Warm regards,

Chris Two Times

[eion_padraig]

I tend to think the the lies we tell ourselves regarding our national identity are often the hardest ones to see through. I occasionally read through American textbooks on US history and politics and the discussions about Americans valuing freedom, and it is hard for me to reconcile these blanket statements with politics and policies over long periods of time. I have always considered this to be part of the issue with this way of thinking.

 

Simon_CH, that is another interesting point you bring up regarding social class differences. Often when I pointed out some of the rude behavior in public that goes on, my local friends (Shanghainese when I lived there, Guangzhou folks now) like to respond, "Oh, those are not local people behaving that way. We (fill in blank of local people) don't (fill in impolite behavior, 'spit', 'cut lines', etc).

 

There is another angle I look at this from and it's the difference between the value that Chinese give interactions between friends/relatives and strangers. The rules and expectations of how Chinese interact with family or friends is quite different than strangers. At least with Americans (which I am), there is less differentiation in how you might treat a family member versus a stranger in many contexts. There is a difference for sure, but it's less dramatic than in China. I think part of what you're seeing is Chinese making judgements on how much more they consider their friends and family when making decisions. In their value system, this is what it means to be "polite", while in contrast holding the door for a stranger or pushing the button so the elevator door doesn't close and the random person can also get on the elevator isn't really a consideration regarding "polite" behavior.

 

This is one of the reason while learning Chinese and getting to be good friends with Chinese people is so enriching. When my non-Chinese friends and colleagues start complaining about China and Chinese people, I try to get them to look at it from this angle. Sometimes they get what I'm saying, but usually they prioritize their own value system and dismiss Chinese people as being rude and China lacking civilization. At the same time when I get Chinese friends saying, "Why don't Americans love their old people. They don't live with their children", I try to deconstruct some of their assumptions and talk about cultural and economics reasons why elderly parents don't (and may not want to) live with their adult children.

 

Having said this, I'll push jerks with my body (not my arms though) as I get off the subways. I tend to target those people standing in the exit area of the platform. 

 

Eion

[somethingfunny]

Chinese people say foreigners are not polite.  Foreigners say Chinese people are not polite.

 

Northern Chinese people say southern Chinese people are lazy and untrustworthy.  Southern Chinese people say Northern Chinese people are loud, obnoxious and have bad tempers.

 

People from the south of England say Northerners are stupid.  People from the north of England say Southerners are soft.

 

Everyone thinks they are better than everyone else.  Although, being British, I actually am objectively better than everyone else.

 

In all seriousness though, take what students say with a pinch of salt, and take what Chinese students say with an even bigger pinch of salt.  My friend showed me an essay one of the top students in his class had written which talked about how great the Chinese government was because it enshrined in law freedom of speech for all of its citizens.

 

I find Chinese people to be obsessed with their national identity and their country's global status.  This creates a lot of strange situations where they struggle between the reality of their position and their (and their government's) desire for China to be #1.  A former coworker would deny China had a pollution problem and called it 'fog'.  Then when they admitted it was pollution they argued that London had pollution as well and I had to tell them it wasn't really on the same scale.  They'd then start talking about the 'great smog' and I'd tell them that was for about a week... 60 years ago...

 

Much like Chris said, sometimes theres not really much you can do.  If someone said to me Chinese people are more 'polite' then I'd probably just take a look around to check, then get back to whatever I was doing.

[Friday]

Perhaps I can give an example. Where I am from, it is customary for any men in the room to stand up when a woman enters. Locals will notice any such person as "polite", and might think a man who sinks into his chair is "rude".

 

I can perhaps list a hundred or so other similar such rules within my area, which I will use to demonstrate politeness or respect to others. But these are definitely not universal ways to show politeness. Chinese might not notice these patterns of behavior, especially as some are as simple as a carefully place nod, of subtle gesture, and thus would not interpret my attempts to appear polite and respectful.

 

So, are there small actions or words, such as the example above, that Chinese expect, but which foreigners might otherwise overlook? Or are their subtle behaviors, gestures, or words that Chinese use to demonstrate respect, e.g. to a teacher or elder, but which I might completely overlook?

[somethingfunny]

Yes, there are probably many things that you could be doing which would make Chinese people think you lack manners.  However, for them to label you as impolite would be a little excessive, cultural relativism and all.

 

For example, there are a lot of things you could be doing at formal/semi-formal dinners, like:  not keeping your glass low when clinking with more senior people, or taking your seat as soon as you enter the room.  Likewise, you might not be giving or accepting specific things with both hands, like name cards.  You might spend all night smoking someone else's cigarettes and not even offer one of your own to anyone else.

 

In my experience its more likely that a Chinese person will talk up their fellow Chinese people's manners, rather than talk down non-Chinese people's manners.  For example, they wouldn't say a non-Chinese person lacked manners if they accepted something on the first time of offering, but they would praise as very polite the Chinese person that refused three times before finally accepting.  Indeed, saying "哪里哪里" when someone compliments your Chinese will often make them feel like you have 'learned' the Chinese style of manners.

 

The important thing to remember is that these are all nation or culture specific.  Chinese people can blame foreigners for not holding their cups low enough just as much as foreigners can blame Chinese people for not holding doors open for other people.  However, I believe there are more universal (objective may be too strong here) ideas of correct behaviour, like: not going to the toilet in the street, motor vehicles giving way to pedestrians, speaking at a reasonable volume in public etc.  The reason I classify these differently is that (1) they relate to issues of health and safety, and (2) they directly impact on many more people rather than just those involved in some ritualised transaction.

 

So yeah, Chinese people suck at forming queues and spit on the floor, but how many times did you toast your boss at your last work dinner?