Word decomposition

[boctulus]

Hi!

 

      Sometimes I see there are MANY ways to decompose a chinese (or japanese) word, here is an example:

 

图书管理员(圖書管理員) librarian 

 

library(图书管)-administrator(理员) or

book(图书)-administration(管理)-person(员) or 

book(图书)-administrator(管理员)

 

So... how should I try to break down words to understand the meaning ? any rule ?

 

EDIT: solved, thanks to all

[Vildhjerp]

Careful, in your first decomposition, "library" should be 图书馆 instead of 图书管. It's not a rare coincidence that there are two different guǎns that commonly follow 图书. This occurrence happens quite often, but differentiating between the possibilities is something you'll get used to as your vocabulary expands.

 

I'd say the third decomposition is the correct one, while the second is a further decomposition of 管理员. Although this meta-decomposing technically isn't incorrect, for learning purposes, I think it'd be best to leave 管理员 intact, given that it has already been solidified within your vocabulary. With that said, once you get used to saying, writing, or thinking about 图书管理员 as the complete concept of "librarian," keep it whole. You'll find that it's much easier to directly link a single concept with its translation, rather than taking that concept, breaking it apart into smaller ones, translating each of those, and then correctly putting them back together. There's a lot of room for error during the latter.

 

If, however, you find yourself decomposing words that are completely brand new to you, decompose them as much as you want. As my complex analysis professor always says, "Just play around with them until you understand what they do." Obviously, if I couldn't recognize a single character in 图书管理员, and I completely decomposed it as: picture(图)-book(书)-pipe(管)-reason(理)-member(员), I'd probably think that a 图书管理员 was some kind of cult member. So be careful when exploring new words and characters, especially ones with multiple different meanings.

 

By the way, there are a lot of words in Chinese that you simply can't decompose logically. So this method may fall apart at times.

[Gharial]

Oops *edit* didn't spot the different guans LOL (though I did at least note that 理员 doesn't seem to be a valid constituent or entry).

 

I guess the short answer is that the "administrator" is administering the "charts n books" rather than the "library (building)" per se, and/or that you should (always?) proceed from the first valid constituent or entry (i.e. < 图书 >..., which then gives 图书 plus 管理员).

 

Why can't they just say 图书馆管理员?! (Just kidding! Oh but see post #7 below LOL).

[boctulus]

Thanks all

 

I don't have any printed dictionary so I use Google Translator to learn new characters and words and unfortunately it's not so good:  while 理员 is translated as "Administrator" , when I re-entry the word ("Administrator") in reverse I get 管理员 

 

So..  理员 could be an invalid word but Google Translator does not warn me [grrrrr]

[Gharial]

Get a cheap smartphone and install Pleco (I have just the free version for now, and even the free version is pretty detailed and useful) would be my advice! It allows you to move (highlight, "cursor") incrementally through whatever item and see how it builds up.

 

In this case, using my Lollipop Android I type in the search string 'tushuguanliyuan' and select the resulting 图书管理员. I then tap on and highlight the first character 图 (relevant info appears in a pop-up bubble), then with each subsequent tap on a simple arrow button -> (="parts"?) am shown a highlighted 书, and then 管理员, from which finally tapping backwards with a corresponding <- button as a double-check then highlights 图书 (showing me those two characters also cohere).

 

Or from the first character I could press a button that looks like l-> (="whole constituent"? I need to check the Pleco manual!) and highlight 图书, and only then press the simple arrow button -> to jump to the next whole constituent 管理员.

 

Or I could just press only the l-> button all along, which from a highlighted 图 will then highlight 图书 and then finally the entire 图书管理员 rather than jumping to a separated-out 管理员.

 

Heh, just trying to give you an idea of how the app works and its apparent options. Hope all that was clear enough LOL.

[boctulus]

Good advice and nice (detailed) explanation 

 

Thank you!

[Gharial]

Heh, you're welcome. I like playing with and browsing around in Pleco!

 

Just thought I'd mention that I searched in it just now for 'librarian' and it gives 图书馆员, 图书管理员 and 图书馆管理员, with the last glossed as 'librarian (a library worker)' rather than just 'librarian', at least in the version running on my old Gingerbread rather than Lollipop Android (the former of which displays such info accessibly and in full, versus in the latter, which cuts off before 'worker' and doesn't seem to lead to a fuller entry or info beyond the search results despite my attempts to find such, though that later, newer version has as to be expected much more info and features overall that more than compensate. That is, at least the Pleco Chinese Dictionary part seems to function a bit better and more fully in the older version. The -> and l-> buttons also seem to work a little differently in the older version. But hey, none of this is probably that relevant anymore, as I doubt the older version is as straightforwardly available/easily downloadable nowadays!).

 

Interestingly, in neither version will a search for 'tushuguang...' (i.e. the Pinyin involved for the hanzi string incorporating the "double guan", ...馆管...) produce a valid result, they both just say 'No Results Found'. Handwriting-inputting the full hanzi string meanwhile will give you results for the two separate constituents involved (图书馆 and 管理员), but not the two combined and/or the example(s) thereof in the dictionaries in Pleco and as mentioned above.

[boctulus]

@Vildhjerp: excellent answer! thank you a lot

 

@Gharial: you can backup your Pleco's old version for you and for sharing with others ;)

There many apps to make backups and they copy the APKs in the folder you want for future sharing.

[Gharial]

Yeah I've certainly looked into online archives for apps (e.g. I'd deleted the old dinky, not-too-memory-hungry version of The Guardian to make space for other apps, thinking I could simply re-install it later from Google's Play store - my Gingerbread's usable internal "installable" memory is very limited, only about 150MB! - but didn't make a back-up of it myself, and the version in the Play store had changed by the time I went back there, and was no longer compatible with my Gingerbread ), so I'm aware of (though not really that au fait with!) the wonderful world of APKs etc LOL. I think Pleco themselves would assist with re-installing older versions, at least paid-for versions. I'm happy to use the Lollipop version in the main now though, given the features that aren't available in the older version. Plus my Lollipop phone has an autofocus lens so there's more chance Pleco's OCR will detect my cat when I point it at it and thus display "猫 - TERMINATE" <blam blam blam>.

[boctulus]

I don't have phone but I had... 

 

Search for App2SD or equivalent to make more space moving apps to SD card.