Reading aloud versus conversation - dissociation of tones

[Flickserve]

If I say some Mandarin, it's understandable.

When I read characters that I know, I am very often wrong with the tones, sometimes way off.

What is going on?

What is going on?

[ouyangjun]

context of the conversation makes understanding words with wrong tones easier.  

 

In short the tones are probably wrong when speaking, but you just don't realize it because people can understand you due to the context.  I'm sure there are words/characters that I'm guilty of this also.

[roddy]

And at a guess you're more likely to be conversing with friends and strangers, but reading aloud for a teacher? Different audience. 

 

You can have bad tones and still be understood. What's useful is tuning in to how easily and quickly you're understood. The classic example is when you improve your pronunciation and all of a sudden taxi drivers stop repeating your destination and just start driving. 

[Rey]

I've a related question: how can the tones be remembered ? coming from a non-tonal language it's all a new dimension of suffering 

[li3wei1]

When you first learn a word, often it's verbally - you hear it and repeat it in daily life, and don't think about the tones (or what the character looks like). These are the words you're using when you speak, and are understood.

 

When you're reading aloud, you're either reading words that you learned by studying (character, tone, flashcard) that have a lot of mental baggage and are easy to confuse with each other, or you're reading the same words as above, only your prompt is the character, not the meaning that you want to express in your head.

[Flickserve]

Thanks all. A lot of mental baggage is a good description

[Shelley]

@Rey the way i remember tones is not to. For me the tone is part of the way a word sounds. I don't separate the tone from the sound of a character. So for example wǒ 我 is to include the third tone in the pronunciation.

 

It helps to do lots of listening to tune your ear to the sounds of chinese, even if you don't understand all of what is being said, just immerse yourself in listening.

 

The main problem is tone sandhi, this is when the tone changes relative to characters that follow it.

 

These are rules that you will just have to learn and practice how to apply. It will take time and effort.

 

Some people believe that you should get tones perfect from the start, I think as long as you are aware of them and try your best, you will make progress and you will eventually improve.

 

 

[Rey]

Thanks you Shelley, I will try to remember the tone as part of the sound in the same way 

 

I hope so

[lips]

... people can understand you due to the context

Second that, this is how people understand lyrics in a song, by sound and context.

[eslang]

 

The main problem is tone sandhi, this is when the tone changes relative to characters that follow it.

 

These are rules that you will just have to learn and practice how to apply. It will take time and effort.

 

Some people believe that you should get tones perfect from the start, I think as long as you are aware of them and try your best, you will make progress and you will eventually improve.

 

 

I certainly agree with Shelley.  It just takes time and effort, listening to lots of different materials, being aware of the tonal changes and trying your best, even though it may not be perfect from the beginning.

 

Recently, I was listening to some Chinese Crosstalk comedy (相声) and learn something from it. The sound for "one" (一) changes relative to the next character, as shown in this video clip, about 2 - 3 minutes.

节日游戏 岳云鹏 孙越

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1n2ntisK6Q

 

岳云鹏节日游戏台词 (Transcript of the Crosstalk)

http://kmhimafx.com/index/news/474064496.html

甲：字典上 朋友们 一 一个YI 一个 Y I

已：呵

甲：他只是一个音 可是

已：可是什么呀

甲：生活当中用到三个音

[LaoDing]

For most learners, tones simply take a long time and tons of repeating, and hopefully tons of practice as well to get the optimal results. Some people are better at tones than others, but that's not so important as long as you're easily understood. It is quite rare for someone to be perfect with tones, the 'one percent.' 

Tones are directly related to fluency in the strict meaning of that term, and despite seeming totally alien, are not in the end all that different from say, the intonation and stress of English. Finally, there is no such thing as 'correct' tones, as each region, and indeed sub-region of speakers in China have their own dialects. In fact, some linguists regard Mandarin (excluding Cantonese and a few other languages) as a language family rather than a single language with many highly variant dialects. Chinese is a lot of fun, and that's a good recommendation: I know it's frustrating when folks don't understand our off-pitch tones, but have fun with them!