Learning/testing four-character phrases

[Guest realmayo]

I wonder if I'm alone in this: when testing myself on vocabulary (whether by SRS or other ways) and a four-character phrase comes up my instant reaction is that I can't be bothered! And often I just look at the answer straight away rather than try to remember the meaning.

 

The only explanation I can come up with is that when I'm testing myself on vocab, most are two-character words which don't need 'working out': I see them and know what they mean. Sure, for some of them I have to rack my brains, or else think about the two individual characters to try to jog my memory. But the majority it's an automatic see-word, know-meaning process.

 

However for four-characters I very rarely see the phrase as a 'whole word' which I instantly recognise. Instead, I associate the appearance of a four-character with needing to stop and think. Which breaks the 'recognition' rhythm I've already got established.

 

It reminds me of the theory described in the book Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman, discussed some time ago here, which says the brain words in two ways: an automatic, 'hot' way of thinking and a 'cold', calculating way. 'Hot thinking' is being asked 'what is 2+2?' and the answer 4 comes automatically and easily. 'Cold cognition' is being asked to work out 13*29 which seems to require a different type of thinking and also involves physical changes: increased heartbeat, increased sweat, that kind of thing -- basically, effort.

 

So this would mean that most words, I recognise automatically. But some, especially four-character ones, require effort. I don't know if I'll ever get more than a handful of four-character words to come 'automatically'. As for testing myself on vocab, I've started putting four-character words into a separate deck/page so I'm not surprised or annoyed when one pops up.

 

There are some exceptions. For instance if I see the shape of '主义' coming up then my brain seems to have learned to automatically read the two characters before the 主义 as part of an -ism, but that's different from a set-phrase type of four-character word.

 

的确 is a word which used to make me halt and work-out in a 'cold cognition', effortful way, that actually it's not a normal 的 but the word 的确, but that process is now 'hot' or automatic. However I'm guessing it would take an awful lot of reading before even fairly common four-character phrases become 'automatic'? Anyone else get resentful at four-character clumps?

[anonymoose]

No. They are part of vocabulary like any other words. Maybe you need to spend more time on your separate four-letter word deck.

[Demonic_Duck]

You have to remember that, just like with two-character phrases, four-character phrases often aren't all that idiomatic. For example, if you know the meanings of all the characters in phrases such as 顾名思义、得不偿失、供不应求、爱不释手, you can generally work them out even if you didn't previously know the meaning.

 

Of course, there are also highly idiomatic four-character phrases (马马虎虎、名落孙山、五花八门, or even loanwords such as 阿弥陀佛 and 歇斯底里).

 

Then there are examples that are idiomatic but make a lot of sense once you learn them, which should make them easier to remember, such as 守株待兔 or 蒙在鼓里.

 

I'd say the second category (the most difficult one) is actually the minority. When you learn four-character phrases, just treat them as longer versions of two-character phrases.

[Guest realmayo]

DD, I think one issue is the 'working it out': ideally I shouldn't be working anything out, but just recognising what a phrase means. As a foreign language learner, there's always going to be an intermediate period between first encountering and setting out to learn a new word, and 'knowing' it automatically when you see it, and that's when meanings need to be worked out. But for less common phrases presumably it takes much longer to get to that automatic stage.

 

Perhaps one reason the 4+character phrases tire me out is because you've got to supress a natural reaction. I imagine native English speakers of a certain age 10+ years ago would have stumbled in their heads for a split second the first few times they came across 'operating system' in a sentence because they're initially treating it as two words; then they realise the grammar of the sentence is going awry and that prompts the memory that 'operating system' is a specific term or phrase.

 

For foreign learners of Chinese I think the classic is 发展中国家 and supressing the '发展+中国+oops what's the 家 doing?' response. Supressing or repressing instincts is tiring.

 

So is the goal is to see 守株 and know that it's going to be followed by 待兔? Or is the goal to be reading/scanning fluently enough that you're seeing the 待兔 at basically the same time as the 守株? Perhaps it ultimately comes down to reading spead.

[stapler]

I don't feel any frustration when encountering 4 character phrases. I just add them to my Pleco flashcards like I do any other vocabulary and delete them after reviewing a few times. I'll often forget them. But if I do read them again they tend to stick. I guess I'm just not that fussed about exerting energy learning them. The ones which are more common I trust I'll just eventually get use to through exposure. Trying to really memorise 4 character words/phrases I might not ever seen again I feel is a waste of my mental resources.