Vocab strategy and Pleco questions

[Lumbering Ox]

1: Should I just do E to C vocab writing the Hanzi out, or should I add C to E recognition work.

From what I understand going first language to second language is better so I will defiantly be doing that. However I am debating the need for C to E work. On one hand it does seem to be a bit of a different if overlapping skillset, they say with RTK that there is no need but my recognition skills lagged behind and seemed sluggish. OTOH I suppose with reading those skills will come up with the rations as they say. If it makes any difference, HSK is in my future.

 

2: Pleco for Android. Gah!. Help! Whimper!

2a: When I press the triple bar thing on the upper left side, I get a menu with something that looks like a star and to the left a character, 简, when I press it it alternates to 繁 [which was a beast to find out, I know it Keyword to Kanji but couldn't remember it the other way around]. What do these do. Based on the dictionary it seems to be simple and numerous but I don't know in what way.

2b: Maybe I am stunned as a mule but I can't figure out the flashcard thing at all. Is there somewhere that explains how to set up a deck and add words in a way one would explain it to a child, or a dog.

I just want to be able to figure out a way to add a card that will either give me the Hanzi or English translation on one side  depending on if it is E to C or C to E and on the other side, the English keyword or Hanzi plus the pinyin and maybe some notes on usage etc.

2c: I assume in the settings under language if I don't pick traditional characters it will all be in simplified?

2d: Why when I try to download flashcard lists I get a url not found message.

[Wurstmann]

1. I wouldn't do E to C. It get's confusing really fast because you will have lots of words where the English is the same or similar and won't know which synonym or near synonym you're being asked.

 

I don't remember whether you answered this in another thread already, but where will your vocab come from? Do you plan on using a textbook?

 

2a. 简 are simplified characters and 繁 are traditional characters.

 

2c. This setting does the same as the button from 2a

[Shelley]

For adding flashcards - look up a word in the dictionary and the entry for the character will have a little + sign on the top bar. If you click on this it will add it to a category. You can have as many categories as you like, use organise cards to name them.

 

If the little + sign has a dotted box round it it means you have already added it to a category.

 

In the New test tab you can set up the parameters of the test. Leave most of it at the default settings till you get the hang of it, but chose your test type, prompt for and show. Some parameters will automatically exclude some combinations.

 

You can't really break Pleco so just try things, it seems confusing to start with but things will make more sense as you go along.

 

And remember to use the help button, this takes you to the manual, its probably a good idea to have a look through the manual, don't expect to understand everything, but it shows what is in the manual and how to find things in it.

 

The 3 bars that take you to the menu is where you find most things you need and remember the menu bar starts with dictionary and the last entry is Contact us so don't miss anything, make sure you scroll to the bottom (it may be that your screen is not big enough to show it all at once)

 

The "star" changes the colour scheme from daytime to night time, try it, it changes to a moon, click the moon it changes back to a sun.

 

The way I use Pleco for flashcards is to lookup all the words in my lesson using Pinyin, clicking the + until I have entered the new words list from my lesson. I then start reviewing to practice and then I start testing . I go through all the different settings for the list. So I do multiple choice, prompting for all the possibilities and then change test type and go through them all again.

 

Have you got a text book yet? If so put your new words, and Pleco with cope with multi character words, then start testing. Go through your lesson doing the grammar, reading, speaking and listening as required. Do Pleco flashcards when ever you get 10 minutes and have a solid half an hour or so a day.

 

Really just try it

 

 

 

[eddyf]

The way I use Pleco is I have two different kinds of tests:

 

1. E to C with the entire dictionary entry on the front (including the examples) and I have to type in the answer using iOS's pinyin-based input (I guess Android probably has the same thing?) So I only have to type in the pinyin and pick out the correct character(s).

2. On the front I have the pinyin and the English definition, and I have to write out the characters using Pleco's handwriting input system.

 

With the first kind of test I'm already halfway through HSK 6 and it's still manageable since I can use the example sentences to help distinguish between synonyms. With the second kind of test I went through all of HSK 5 but I haven't started going through HSK 6 because I don't think being able to write out the characters is as important as recalling the pronunciation and picking the characters from a list (which is usually how Chinese is written these days anyways).

 

Hope it helps.

[Lumbering Ox]

As to where I'd be getting my vocab. I'll start with HelloChinese app, move onto texts and Chinesepod and then move onto native material <joke> I live close to several large Indian Reserves so it shouldn't be a problem finding Native material </joke> If/when it comes time to do HSK I'll top up with whatever I haven't seen yet from various lists.

 

 

The Pleco help files and guides are much better than the Anki unhelp files.

 

It seems, unless I understand it wrong that using the flashcards as an SRS requires a 15 dollar add on. I think I will keep with ANKI for now at least until I finish hellochinese. I am very much in a try before I buy kind of situation.

 

Does the Pleco SRS system also allow for an fail easy medium hard style answering system as ANKI does or just a pass fail system.

Is there a way to have it ask you new cards multiple times, on ANKI I had it set up to test me 3 times on the first encounter which was very useful to really settle things into the brain.

Likewise if you fail a card does the SRS system reset the clock or just retest you keeping the future intervals the same or longer.

[Shelley]

Pleco free flashcards do not have all the functions of the paid version. If you buy the basic bundle to start with, you can then add things if and when you need them.

 

I learn chinese for pleasure, I don't have a big budget to spend on learning materials, but I felt it was worth paying for.

 

If you only pay for one thing then pay for Pleco.

 

I just started a new topic about a new course that was starting on edx (free) that is for complete beginners and they say in the course introduction that they advise students to have Pleco installed on a phone or tablet, so it shows you how well regarded it is and almost a requirement for learning chinese.

In fact IMHO no student of chinese should be without Pleco.

 

As to your questions about SRS, yes it does do a "fail easy medium hard style answering system" once you get the full app you can pretty much configure things exactly the way you want. It is very good.

 

P.S. That new course might be suitable for you, have a look.

 

[Lumbering Ox]

I am sold on Pleco, just not at this exact moment.

I don't mind pounding at least some cash into the process but I'd like to be reasonably sure that the process has some legs to it. That is one thing I like about HelloChinese [which I believe you also let me know about] I figure after about 500 words I should have a pretty good grip on my ability to tackle a tonal language.

After that I'll open the wallet on Pleco and texts.

[Shelley]

Ok, I'll stop

 

Glad you like HelloChinese.

 

Hope it goes well.

[Lumbering Ox]

Last time I tried HelloChinese I just moved on from pronunciation into lesson 1 but going through the pronunciation lesson wasn't really enough to drive it home. The Pinyin part at least. Lesson 1 was fine, but I'd be more comfortable with getting a better base.

 

Is there a decent and free pinyin trainer out there. I can't seem to find a Anki deck for it, not sure if there is anything in Pleco and if it would work in the free version. I'd make my own deck but it would be nice to find one with audio clips in it.

 

Also am I being a bit nutty in my concerns. I figure I'll be learning with audio samples for words for quite a bit of time so I probably don't need to get pinyin perfect in that context it should come around.

 

A lot of those letters seem to have pretty identical sounds.

[Shelley]

I have just finished Lesson one of the new edX course I posted about here http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/51164-new-edx-course-just-started/

 

They have a very comprehensive section at the start about Pinyin. I also think you might benefit from doing the course, it is complete beginners.

 

This might be useful https://chinesepod.com/tools/pronunciation.

 

I had a look at Hellochinese and I thought their pinyin lesson was quite good, maybe you just need to do it more than once, it did take me a while to get it sorted and I am sure its still not perfect.

 

 

 

 

[Lumbering Ox]

I checked a few trainer apps and they don't seem much different from HC.

 

I wish they had a flashcard system for pinyin, even if it isn't SRS related. They have one for vocab.

I'd also love to see the similar pinyin side by side, where you hear the audio of similar ones and you have to keep the correct pinyin [A B or B A] in a flashcard system thingy.

I guess I'll run through HC over and over, probably enter them into ANKI with descriptions. I suppose as time goes on I'll develop an ear for them.