My plan

[Kado]

Didn't really feel like posting this, but it seems I need five posts before I can view other profiles.. *Interested in searching a particular author's post history. (If there's a way to do this please let me know )

Anyways.. I intend to write about my current plan for learning Chinese and my progress thus far.

(edit: thanks Imron, totally understand why that rule exists)

About me:
I have been in China for about two years and I haven't studied in any university but would like to consider my Chinese above average for a foreigner who hasn't had any formal Chinese study (If you don't count the one semester of Chinese in community college in the states).

I started out with Rosetta Stone before China and a mix of Pimsleurs. I don't regret it although don't credit most of my learning to these programs. Think the biggest strides came when I just started trying to speak as often as I could, forcing myself not to use English.

I hired tutors who were University students and tried to have them correct me when I made mistakes (got this idea from Tamu). I probably had up to 5-6 different tutors and maybe 2-3 once a week at the height of frequency.

Also my girlfriend, Chinese, is extremely patient with me and loves to speak with me in Chinese. Even though her English is fantastic.

I'd say the last 6 months I haven't really studied consistently; consequently my level has stagnated and I've decided about two weeks ago to really make a firm plan and decision to really go for fluency.


Here's the plan (feedback welcome and appreciated)

Main areas of focus in order:
1. Speaking
2. Listening
3. Grammar
4. Reading

(I know my Chinese friends would say that hand writing is important to learn about Chinese culture but "I ain't got time for that")

Speak as often I can in Chinese (friend, girlfriend, strangers, etc.) Think I have an advantage since must Chinese people already think I'm Chinese. Ha-ha

Watch Conan the dubbed version as often as I can.

Finish reading New Practical Chinese Reader series and Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar.

Finish HSK_2012 Anki set (5000+ characters with audio and sentence samples)

*Speak to my girlfriend only in Chinese (or as often as she will allow me to)


My goal is to achieve fluency by 2018, be able to converse with Chinese people without them knowing I'm a foreigner (unless I tell them or they ask me where I'm from).

I'm told I have good pronunciation (but maybe because must people in 广东 learned Cantonese first..


谢谢大家!

[imron]

If there's a way to do this please let me know

The 5 post limit is to catch spammers and people discovering the forums for the first time and going through old posts saying "I agree" or similar. You should be good to go now.

[abcdefg]

I'm told I have good pronunciation (but maybe because must people in 广东 learned Cantonese first.

 

This doesn't count for squat. Post a recorded sample if you want a critique.

 

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I don' mean to sound harsh or unwelcoming. It's just that all of us have heard unfounded praise so many times. After a hesitant 你好, "Oh, your Chinese is so wonderful."

[Lu]

In my experience, 'Oh, your Chinese is so good!' means 'You managed to say 你好 and I understood', while 'your pronunciation is so good!' means 'I can tell you're attempting to speak Chinese'.

 

That aside: your plan sounds good. You're combining structured studying with a textbook with real-life practice, which is sound. Keep at it and welcome to the forums!

[vellocet]

I would say listening first, speaking second.  Drop NPCR (bleh) and substitute Chinese Made Easier.  The grammar book is solid, it's meant as a reference but I say read it through like you would any other book, and then read through it a couple more times.  Eventually it'll stick.  Anki is great but don't forget it's only flashcards.  Anki is also a total tyrant, it does not allow days off or vacations or any of that nonsense without piling up hundreds of cards in backlog.  Being able to talk to people on the telephone and them not know you're a foreigner is truly a worthy goal. 

[victor557]

 

In my experience, 'Oh, your Chinese is so good!' means 'You managed to say 你好 and I understood', while 'your pronunciation is so good!' means 'I can tell you're attempting to speak Chinese'.

@Lu totally agree. what's most revealing is they're saying it in English. when they REALLY think you can speak Chinese, they'll test the water's a bit by giving the complement in chinese (e.g. 你中文讲的怎么好) and then just speak normally to you in Chinese.

 

@Kado it sounds like you're doing pretty well and have learned most of the characters. i highly recommend you start reading native material (perhaps use a browser plugin or some other tool which makes it convenient to lookup words you don't know). also, with stuff like grammar make sure you're always actively learning it and put it into practice. personally, my biggest regret is that i became passive with my learning and stagnated because of it; i didn't go out of my way to learn new grammar etc.

 

anyway, i think you can achieve your goal if you really keep at it all that time. but as we all know that's the toughest part.

[Shelley]

Finish reading New Practical Chinese Reader series and Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar.

 

I think this is an excellent plan. I use these as my core textbooks. This doesn't mean you can't add something like Chinese made Easy but I wouldn't substitute NPCR with CME.

 

This is just my opinion,(don't want to start which is best war with vellocet) but I don't think you can go wrong with NPCR if you use the workbook, listen to the mp3's and watch the videos. Its a good all rounder and with the Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar as well, it is a good combo.

[imron]

perhaps use a browser plugin or some other tool which makes it convenient to lookup words you don't know

​Personally I think this is a bad idea, especially as you reach more advanced levels because as your ability increases, your aim should be to read text *unaided*.  If you start to use a tool that provides a convenient way to look up unknown words without you needing to think, then you are doing yourself a disservice.

 

This is for two reasons, firstly, because if something is quick and convenient to look up, it is also quick and convenient to forget.

 

Secondly you don't develop confidence in knowing words, because you'll often look up a word 'just to check' if you were right, and if so, there is a tendency to think 'yes I was right' and then move on.  When actually you should stop and think about why you weren't 100% confident in reading it, and spending some time cementing the meaning/pronunciation in your mind so that the next time you encounter it you will be confident enough to read/understand it without needing to resort to a dictionary 'just to check' (how often do you 'just check' words in your native language - probably rare to never). 

​

​You are far better off in the long run choosing material at an appropriate level (e.g. various graded readers) and gradually increasing the difficulty of the material as your vocabulary and grasp of the language increases, rather than using a tool that will help you read more advanced material but that becomes a crutch holding you back from unaided reading.

​

[abcdefg]

I have found what Imron said to be true. Training wheels turned into crutches; they have been difficult to discard and have slowed my overall reading progress.

[victor557]

@imron you've definitely got a point about using level-appropriate material and the danger of misusing browser plugins. graded readers are good up to a point, but when approaching advanced level, i do think it's necessary to become accustomed to using authentic material. not just for active learning, but also as part of daily life and leisure. at the start it's too easy to fall flat on your face.. a lot of people will need training wheels at first. personally, having a fast way to lookup words (e.g. pop-up definitions from browser plugin) has meant that i've done a lot more reading. subsequently, more vocab is being reinforced in my memory and my reading speed is improving. without a browser plugin i have the choice of either skipping over the word and missing out on a learning opportunity, or checking a dictionary which kills my flow.

anyway, a tool like a browser plugin can either be a crutch or a powerful learning tool depending on how it's used... and yeah, if you're not using a particular tool wisely then it's better not to use it at all.

[wibr]

@Imron While I agree that graded readers are best, it's not easy to get one for exactly your level. Apart from that, a convenient way to look things up is just that. It saves you time that you can use for actual reading, repetition etc.. Of course you could click through a whole sentence word by word and not make any progress, but I don't see why artificially slowing down the lookup process itself should be beneficial. If you see a word that you don't know, you can still spend a few seconds trying to figure it out yourself. And if you are not sure about a meaning, there is no way of "cementing the meaning" unless you actually look it up, you don't want to cement the wrong things.