还不(就)是

[metlx]

I’ve come across this sentence:

 

别叫我会长，还不是你们害的。
The translation of "还不是你们害的" in the book says "It’s all your fault, you caused me this trouble".

What does 还不是 mean here? Is it the same as 就是 or is it a sarcastic expression?  I.e. "Others call me president (of the organisation), it’s definitely not you who caused it! (sarcasm implied)" Is it like that?

[陳德聰]

A quick note: 別 means 不要 here, not 別人

As for 還不是, it really just means 就是 haha. Your sarcasm guess is right on target.

http://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/365/how-to-translate-understand-%E8'> If you need more examples.

This is similar to English "as if" said sarcastically.

[eddyf]

I don't think sarcasm is the right way to understand it. Sarcasm is usually mocking and this sentence doesn't sound mocking to me. At most it sounds exasperated.

I think it's more like a rhetorical question where the question mark can be omitted. I'm pretty sure you could have put a question mark at the end of that sentence and the meaning would be the same. So the translation is more like, "isn't this all your fault?"

[陳德聰]

Mm... I don't know about that, I think that it's pretty far from a question, considering that the meaning is definitely "it's your fault" and this wouldn't be a possible sentence unless the speaker is scoffing at the person on the receiving end. I suppose I must have a more broad definition of sarcasm. I have always understood it to mean deliberately saying something that is not literally true, but means almost the exact opposite of the literal meaning of the words you used.

[eddyf]

I mean, it's true that the 还不是 is definitely acting as an intensifier instead of negating the meaning even though it looks like it should negate. But I think it's best to understand it as a different language phenomenon than "sarcasm" which is usually used to ridicule or mock and is marked by the content and inflection of sentences and not just by their grammatical structure (thus why on the internet you often need "sarcasm tags" to clarify that you're being sarcastic). This 还不是 thing is not really like that. Actually I like that you brought up "as if" because I think this is actually a good translation: "as if this isn't all your fault!" But I don't consider that a sarcastic statement.

I was trying to find something to back me up in understanding it as a rhetorical question structure. I didn't find much discussion about it online but at least this 知乎 answerer sees in in the same way: https://www.zhihu.com/question/24493716

But anyway my point is mainly that:

"This is definitely not your fault! (sarcasm implied)" => This is not a good translation, as it doesn't really capture the right feeling.

"As if this isn't all your fault!" => I like this translation.

And 还不是 is a kind of usage/grammatical structure and that's why it has the meaning it has in this sentence. Whereas sarcasm is something independent of grammar.

And on a side note, I haven't really seen people be sarcastic in Chinese. I don't know if it's even a thing. But maybe I just don't know where to look.

[Messidor]

“还不是X” in @metlx's example is usually taken as a rhetorical question(还不是你么害的=就是你们害的). There're a few papers (of low quality) discussing this phenomenon. It can be used in a complaining, satirical or humorous tone.

Also there's another similar usage：

----本来打算不去的。

----你还不是去了

还不是 here mean 还是.

 

I've seen more satire than sarcasm used by Chinese

[Leah. X.]

“还不是” points out contradictions in these cases.

 

----本来打算不去的。

----你还不是去了

Here, someone says he didn't intend to go, and the other says: "BUT you went there ANYWAY".

 

 

 

别叫我会长，还不是你们害的。

In this case, the sentence is out of context, so we don't know what exactly happened to the speaker. A reasonable assumption is that the speaker was elected a "president of some sort" against his will by his friends, and his friends are calling him "president". The speaker is essentially saying: hey I don't want this title BUT you guys put me in this difficult position ANYWAY (friends' action contradicts with his will), so at least don't address me with that title...