Private school: Xiamen or Kunming?

[aless]

Hello,

This is my first post here. I've searched the forum and I've found some useful information, but I thought I'd post to see if I can get some first hand experience and more up to date advice.

So I started learning chinese (self-study) almost two months ago, and I'm about to go to China for a couple of months to take some classes at a private language school. I'm well past university age and I'd rather have the flexibility of a private school.

My budget is pretty low. I I've been to China a few times before, latest last year, backpacking all the way to Xingjiang and on to Kyrgyzstan, so I can pretty much adapt to any condition that can save some money.

I'd like to hear some first hand experience of people gaving studied in group classes (not one to one) either in Kumming or Xiamen.

My idea was to study in Xiamen (I'm flying to HK where I'm going to apply for a tourist visa), but I could find only one language school there, MandarinFun, which I already contacted. There are positive reviews in this forum, all quite old. My concern is that if they can't make a group or I don't like the school I'd have pretty much no alternatives.

About Kunming I saw many posts, there are many schools and it seems a more lively place to study, I'm not after partying, done that quite a few years ago, but I feel maybe I'd have more options there. I've been to Kunming twice, but as a traveller, not as a student.

As for the expenses I think the two cities might be comparable, but I've never been to Xiamen so I don't know. As for accommodation, as I'm only staying a couple of months, I guess my only option is haggling over a weekly or monthly rate at some guesthouse.

So what are your experiences in any of these two cities?

Thanks,

Alessandro

[onebir]

Several threads with recent views on Kunming study options here:

http://www.gokunming.com/en/forums/board/4/study

[eion_padraig]

I like both cities a lot. Either places could be nice places to be for a couple of months. My impression overall is that prices are comparable though Kunming's cost for local goods is lower.

 

I spent some time just over a year ago in April in Kunming. Kunming in the summer can be rather wet; I decided against a summer program there when I saw their summer rainfall. This can be good if you want to force yourself to be indoors, but not great if you want to explore the city or further afield.

 

I've spent a bit of time in Xiamen last Fall and again this Spring. Xiamen's summer weather will be hotter, but not too bad and will be drier overall. They've got a cool craft beer bar with a couple of locations called Fat Fat Horse beer. Good hiking in the city and lots of good seafood. I was impressed by how much Mandarin I heard in the city as I expected to hear a lot of Min Nan dialect.

Last summer I spent two weeks in Dalian studying Chinese and that was a good place to be too.

Either plan sounds good.

[abcdefg]

My budget is pretty low.

 

How low? A lot of people think Kunming will provide less expensive living than it actually does in year 2016. Prices have risen steeply over the last 5 years.

 

As for accommodation, as I'm only staying a couple of months, I guess my only option is haggling over a weekly or monthly rate at some guesthouse.

 

You might be able to rent a room in an apartment with two or three other tenants. Might be less expensive and give you access to a kitchen where you could make some of your own meals.

 

As a general observation, it can be difficult to find group classes that fit your needs for a short span of time such as a couple months. Groups usually have fixed start dates and ending dates. One-to-one is more expensive, but much more flexible.

 

I'm flying to HK where I'm going to apply for a tourist visa

 

China visas usually have more favorable terms when you get them in your home country. If you had to make a Hong Kong visa run after only 30 days, it would add appreciably to your overall expenditure. Not sure where you're from, but you might want to look into visa terms and costs.

 

Welcome to the forum. I hope your plan works out.

[aless]

Hey, thank you for all the replies!

I had a look at the Kunming school listing, as suggested by onebir, and I found most of them to be cheaper than the one in Xiamen, more schools, more competition, lower prices, I guess. But for what I've gathered from their websites, the only school that offers short term group classes, as in less than four months, is Tenwest, although the price they quote (35 yuan/h) is for 2013.

Thanks eion for pointing out about Mandarin spoken in Xiamen, I was actually worried I was going to hear it only in the class, but then I thought the same about Kunming... I enjoy the warm weather, as well as the rainy season, I lived a few years in Bangkok and I kind of liked the rainy summer months there, but if I had to choose solely based on the city, I'd probably go for Xiamen.

Abcdefg, my budget is low as in I don't need comforts and I enjoy eating at the cheap streetside restaurants or at food stalls, going everywhere by public transport or on foot, and staying at cheap and cheerful places. Last time I was in China I tried to stay mostly at cheap bīn guăn, but it's not easy as many don't take foreigners and a few times the police came pick me up : -)

Sharing a flat would be a good idea, and been able to cook, fantastic, but with my very limited chinese I don't know if I can manage to find a room.

You are right about groups been more difficult to find, but I saw a few schools that consider a group two people and up, so I thought maybe in the summer would be easier to find just one more person to start a group. Private classes are a bit out of my budget, but I could maybe reduce the number of hours and save a bit that way....

As for the visa, lately it got difficult because, DIY, they require return ticket and booked accommodation for your whole stay, especially if you apply back home. Going through an agency solves the flight and hotel bookings for a bit more money than the visa fee. Last year I got one very easily and quite cheap in Saigon. A tourist visa can be extended for 30 days inside the country, which is what I did last year, it's not cheap but still cheaper than a visa run. If nothing has changed it should still be possible.

Thanks for all the great info, I'm from Italy, btw.

If someone can tell me more about Xiamen or has studied there, I'd be glad. I found a lot of info about Kunming but almost nothing about Xiamen, it doesn't look like many foreigners go there to study...

Alessandro

[onebir]

Re abcdefg's last point, looks like even via a visa agent, only 30 days per stay is available for tourist visas issued in HK now:

http://www.fbt-chinavisa.com.hk/services.html#l

[abcdefg]

Onebir, that's what I was concerned about. If the original poster had to make a visa run back to Hong Kong for a renewal half way through his studies, that would add an extra cost to an already tight budget.

 

Sharing a flat would be a good idea, and been able to cook, fantastic, but with my very limited chinese I don't know if I can manage to find a room.

 

Sometimes you can share with other expats. If they are friendly people who take you under their wing, this can also help sort out problems of getting settled and initial daily living. Go Kunming often has such listings.

 

I've been to Xiamen as a tourist and liked it quite a bit. But I know exactly zero about studying Chinese language there. Kunming has a wealth of resources, more than anyplace I've ever lived besides Beijing.

 

Cheapest option here is often a university-affiliated program. Not sure the flexibility you hope for is actually to be found in an established private school offering group classes. For a couple years I went to KCEL. Had to submit a written request 请假 if I needed or wanted a couple days off for travel.

 

The group classes at Keats are not very demanding in terms of hours and don't give you an "intensive" introduction to the language. They would need to be supplemented with some other study methods to form a comprehensive package.

 

If "cheap cost" is too high on your list of criteria, you may miss out on some better learning opportunities. I realize saying that makes me sound like an elitist, which is not quite accurate. You may need to find free language exchange partners to help you make better progress. They are sometimes problematic, but at other times can be extremely helpful.

[aless]

abcdef, thank you very much for taking the time to answer my doubts. Your points are valid and as much as I'd like Xiamen -much closer to HK, and I've never been there- I think for the limited time I have in China Kunming would be a better bet.

I might consider private tuition too, if the rate is not too outrageous, and I'm also quite good at self studying, so possibly I can integrate what I learn by myself.

This time I don't plan to travel, so the only flexibility I'm looking for is the classes to start a few days after I arrive and that I can leave after six, maximum seven weeks.

As for the visa, if it can be of help for others, a 30 days L visa can be extended for maximum 30 more days at the local PSB (Police Security Bureau). It's not guaranteed, but if you are not living in China on tourist visas, you should be pretty sure to get another 30 days. Extension has to be applied maximum one week before the expiration date printed on your visa, you need a special photo that you'll be told where you can get, an accommodation slip provided by your hotel/hostel for the night you are applying for the visa, an itinerary you can easily make up and sometimes, but it never happened to me, they may require a printout of your bank statement. Plus the usual copies of your passport and visa.

Last year I paid 160 yuan for the extension and maybe another 30 something for the photo (expensive, I know, but normal photos won't do)

If on a double entry L visa, you can extend the first time and then still use the second entry provided your visa is still valid by then.

Just out of curiosity, on which kind of visa people stay in China for short term courses? Are there other options beside L visas?

Thanks again all, I'll move to the Kunming section for more specific questions I might have.

Alessandro

[onebir]

"As for the visa, if it can be of help for others, a 30 days L visa can be extended for maximum 30 more days at the local PSB (Police Security Bureau). It's not guaranteed, but if you are not living in China on tourist visas, you should be pretty sure to get another 30 days."

 

It might be worth checking with some Kunming schools about this - KM PSB has reportedly gotten quite strict in some ways recently. The area of strictness - in-term travel on a study visa - isn't directly related, but it sounds like it was applied to quite minor infractions with no warning at all. The schools will have up to date, local experience.

[aless]

onebir, do you mean people on tourist visas had been turned down for the 30 day extension at the Kunming PSB? It's the same story all over Asia in all those places where people want to live in a country on tourist visas, Thailand being maybe the best example.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll see what schools might say. But other than a tourist visa, what other options are there to study two months in China?

I could always apply for a double entry and then make a visa run to Vietnam or Laos, but that sounds too much of a hassle.

Thanks.

[889]

Visa extensions are not just a hassle, they create a lot of anxiety, since you can never be absolutely sure you will get one.

 

You haven't mentioned your nationality, but remember that Americans, Britons and Canadians can now get multiple-entry visas with 60-day stays almost without question. If you're another nationality, then you'd probably stand a better chance of getting a visa with more than 30 days in your home country, depending on your home country. If you do apply in Hong Kong, I'd suggest just heading to the Visa Office in Wanchai yourself and trying to sweet-talk the clerks there into a 60-day stay.

 

As an aside, I think I'd settle on Kunming, too. (And while summer rainfall might be more in Kunming than Xiamen, humidity-wise Xiamen, like Hong Kong, can be insufferable in July and August, with typhoons always a risk. I don't think Kunming people have ever seen a typhoon.)

[abcdefg]

I believe the OP said he was Italian. Not sure if Italians generally have an easy time of China visas or not. Just not something I have followed.

 

@889 brings up a good point about the weather. What time of year are you thinking of coming to China to study?

 

I might consider private tuition too, if the rate is not too outrageous, and I'm also quite good at self studying, so possibly I can integrate what I learn by myself.

 

Private teaching can be found for 100 RMB per hour if the teacher is a qualified professional teacher. The rate can easily be half that much if your teacher is a university graduate student. 

 

Some private schools in Kunming offer instruction for a "small class" of two or three students. It's mainly designed for couples or families. But if you meet a couple of people with whom you are congenial and your language levels approximately match, that can be a economical avenue to pursue. I've seen ads in Go Kunming in which people are trying to round up one or two other students for such a class. Sharing the teacher keeps the cost down.

 

I'm sure you will be able to work something out. And with enough energy and grit you can wind up learning a fair amount.

 

One key element that I cannot stress strongly enough is to allow time to socialize with some local Chinese people. Do sports together, go to the park together, drink tea together, play mahjiang together, or something else. Anything to get you out of the classroom rubbing shoulders with locals in a real world setting. Do your best not to hang out too much with other foreigners.

 

For the past couple years I've done Tai Chi early in the mornings with a bunch of gray haired ladies and retired older guys. Costs 20 Yuan a month and it's great fun. The only drawback is that Mandarin is rare as hen's teeth in the older neighborhoods; everyone talks local dialect 昆明话。At times I can corral someone who used to be a teacher to translate for me. (Translate into Chinese.)

[aless]

Sorry guys, my replies are still moderated, so they arrive somewhat late :-)

As abcdefg said, I'm from Italy, and while I usually had no problems getting a visa, even to the most exotic countries, I don't think we can get 60 days in a row in China without leaving the country.

Applying for the visa in Italy is not an option, as I'm now in Indonesia. I'll see what's on offer when I get to HK, which is going to be one month from now, and I'll post back my findings.

Sure, I also thought about typhoons, especially when considering studying in Taiwan to solve the whole visa trouble. But more than by typhoons I was held back by the traditional characters and the romanization mess...

I think I'll give Kunming a try and see how it goes, I'll keep things as flexible as I can.

Thanks for the sound advice about mingling with locals, it's what I always do even when I only know three words of the local tongue. Can't wait to learn mahjong properly, and if i had more time in China, I'd love to buy a bird and go join the guys that hang their handsome cages from the trees in the parks. I'm also intrigued by having a cricket as a pet...

Alessandro

[aless]

Hi again,

I'd like to update this post with what I finally ended up doing.

I arrived Xiamen one week ago, and apart from the heat the city is really pleasant with good air quality too. For the moment no typhoons...

I'm here with a double entry tourist visa issued in Hong Kong, very straightforward if you do it thorough an agency, no bookings, return tickets, etc. of course you pay a bit more. Takes five working days, the express service is following day but gets expensive, plus HK is an amazing city to visit.

HK to Xiamen is 3 1/2 h by fast train. I decided to stay in a gh because looking for an apartment for such a short time isn't going to be worth for me. The gh is cheap with very good facilities and a large common space where I can study. There are a lot of Chinese students on holiday here too, so it's also a good place to try some Chinese.

I signed up for one to one classes at a private school, indeed at the beginning one to one is much more useful, even if a bit expensive, around 120 per hour. I'm taking one hour a day. Teachers are young but well prepared, at least the one I have.

There's an island, one hour something from here, that belongs to Taiwan, so very easy to activate the second entry of the visa go and come back the same day.

I'll try to extend one more month when the second entry expires, let's see how it goes.

Maybe classes aside, i don't think Xiamen is much more expensive than Kunming, if you avoid McDonald's and the likes and eat Chinese food you can have a metal for 14/20 yuan, buses are one yuan a ride, or you can use the bicycles around town.

All in all I think on a tourist visa Xiamen is a better solution than Kunming. For longer stays I have no idea, maybe before leaving I'll check what's on offer at the university here.

Hope it helps,

Alessandro

[abcdefg]

Thanks for the update. What school in Xiamen?

[aless]

It's MandarinFun, it was mentioned on this forum a few years back, there are other schools but not that easy to find. I gave this one a try and for the moment I'm happy with them. Can't speak about advanced levels, as I'm just starting, but I saw they had some of their students pass hsk5 this week. Their website is easy to find searching on the Internet.

[abcdefg]

Thanks, that's what I was wondering. http://www.mandarinfun.cn/en/

 

I always did like Xiamen a lot and came close to moving there more than once. In addition to clean air, the fresh seafood is superb. I enjoy Chinese tea, and like exploring Fujian's rich producing areas.

[stapler]

 

There's an island, one hour something from here, that belongs to Taiwan, so very easy to activate the second entry of the visa go and come back the same day.

 

Jinmen. IIRC the boat trip was more like 30 minutes. I wouldn't recommend going there. It's actually quite boring. The only interesting thing I can remember is that the numberplate on the cars all say Fuzhou province, and the vice mayor of the island greeted me with a small orchestra and gave me a heat pack and a lucky charm. Totally bizarre!

[aless]

@abcdefg, indeed the seafood here is wonderful, today a student introduced me to the jelly sandworm 土笋冻 snack, haha, despite the English name it tastes good!

@stapler can't wait to be received by the small orchestra...

[889]

It's a little unclear: did you just get a 30-day stay each entry? If so, it's useful to know for certain that that's the most generally available in HK now to non-residents and those who aren't Canadian or American.

 

(And just to be clear for others reading this, there's no high-speed train from Hong Kong to XIamen; you have to cross over the border and catch it from Shenzhen.)