advice on two language schools - anyone been here recently?

[hongputaojiu]

Hi guys

 

Just a follow up to my post last week about choosing online vs language school.

 

So I have decided to go with the language school option. This is due to the fact that I am lazy student and the structure of having classes ensures I will actually do some study!

 

I am trying to choose between these two language schools for a 4 week intensive

 

http://www.omeida.com.cn/Fees/ (Yangshuo)

 

-11040RMB 4 weeks

- 3hrs per day HSK prep 1-1, and 1hr per day conversation tutor

-private room accomm + food

-they have lots of reviews on tripadvisor (a sign of a great marketing dept?!  ?)

 

http://learnchineseinyunnan.com/ (Dali and Lijiang)

 

-7600RMB 4 weeks

-4hrs per day HSK prep 1-1

-private room accomm only

 

So there is obviously a start difference between the two in terms of price. 

 

For me the most important is the teacher, but there is no real way of know (despite the school assurances of well qualified teachers) about the teachers, unless someone here has first hand experience of either of these schools. 

 

Anyone know anything about them?

 

cheers

hongputaojiu

 

PS.: why these two schools? Its a combination of price, somewhere I havent studied before, and an interesting location to spend up to a month of my summer. There are many big city summer classes which are super expensive. I found one in Beijing were the class fees were very cheap (less than 1000RMB per week for HSK small group class 4hrs per day) but the accommodation was very expensive, and the location not so great (think outside 4th ring). 

[hongputaojiu]

update from omeida in Yangshuo- just now there student manager Wendy told me that can't guarantee that the classes would be run by a qualified teacher, they also use English majors with a certificate in teaching chinese. I personally want to avoid a teacher without a qualification in teaching chinese. Do you guys agree with this thinking?

[imron]

Yes, personally I would also want to avoid teachers who were English majors.

[hongputaojiu]

yeah thanks imron that was my feeling too, but I was starting to think maybe I was being too fussy!! But I personally can now see the difference between those with a background in studying teaching and those with other majors. 

 

I am still not certain that the Dali/Lijiang school is a great choice either, its hard to find any info from anyone who has studied there.

[imron]

Outside of those who had studied teaching, I would also consider teachers whose major was related to the Chinese Language (e.g. perhaps Chinese Literature or similar), or if it was related to my own field (Computer Science).  Other than that I'd be fussy, unless the person came with a great recommendation from someone I trusted.

[hongputaojiu]

yeah thanks imron, I agree.

 

I am also curious what the "certificate" is that many language schools say their non-qualified teachers possess.

 

Does anyone know if there is a standard or is this like the international "tefl/tesol" course 

[Guest realmayo]

I've heard that during the busiest few weeks of the year (summer), it can be hard for lots of schools to find enough qualified teachers to meet the boosted, short-term demand.

 

they also use English majors with a certificate in teaching chinese

 

I think that'd be fine if the certificate is a good one.

 

Personally I'd be happier being taught by an English major than a Chinese Literature major.

[zhouhaochen]

Ok, I work for a language school, so I will obviously not comment on either of those two choices (nor do I know much about them as we do not have a school in either of those two cities).

 

However, having worked in a language school for quite a while, I think I can give some useful advice on what you might want to pay attention to

 

1) Lessons are usually not full hours. Check how much actual teaching time you get for the price.

 

2) Find out what exactly does "qualified teacher" mean.

 

3) Ask specifics about the teachers. Try to get statements that actually mean something, like "all our teachers hold a university degree, are full time staff and have at least two years of full time teaching experience" which you can actually check and verify (and complain later about if not met) instead of general promises like "our teachers are highly professional and qualified with a lot of work experience", which effectively means nothing. I agree with Imron that having studied English is not much of a qualification for a Chinese teacher in general (though of course an English major could still be a good teacher). In my personal experience having a teacher who committed to teaching Chinese as a career (as opposed to as a job for a few years only) and works for the school full time, has annual leave, insurance, gets sick pay etc. is probably the best indicator (though not a guarantee) of a good course.

 

4) Class size matters: what is the average class size? However, this again is hard to verify, as a school could say anything they want there and then just say your course is not average - which is impossible to verify because naturally sometimes some classes will of course be bigger than average. More reliable is the "maximum class size“ as that is a guarantee that you can insist on. Usually one would expect average class size to be somewhere between 40% to 70% of the maximum class size.

 

5) While I do not think that having English majors teach Chinese is necessarily a good thing, having a school manager being honest enough to tell you about this before you come, I would actually take as a good sign: the school cares about it's reputation and does not want to promise things they cannot deliver on.

 

6) Reviews: While a marketing department can encourage happy students to write reviews, There need to be happy students at that school in the first place for this to work. Also, it has no way to stop unhappy students to write negative ones. So while I would take with a grain of salt review sites like Tripadvisor, in general there is value in these review.

 

7) For groups, how many different levels are there actually being offered? The more levels there are the more likely your class mates will be at a similar level.

 

8 ) For HSK preparation, which materials are used and how exactly are those teacher qualified to teach HSK? Anyone can go through an HSK test preparation book, but that does not make a teacher an HSK expert.

 

9) Accommodation: This is where actually a big part of the cost will come from. Get pictures (and insist you want actual pictures from the accommodation, not stock pictures), but also specifics like distance to the school, kitchen facilities, whom they are shared with (will you have any non English speaking Chinese flat mates whom you could practice your Chinese with?), is there a desk, chair, air-con etc. available?

 

10) Community, social program and support: I am not sure what you are looking for there, but ask for specifics about activities (for example what was the program for this week?), how many support staff there are (and where they are from), what are the nationalities of other students, how long do they usually come for to the school etc.

While not necessarily directly related to your Chinese progress, the community and general "feeling" at a school will have a lot to do with how much you enjoy your stay, so this is something that might be worth paying attention to.

 

Enjoy your trip and make sure you do not only rely on the classes to progress: you need to use your Chinese outside the class room too.

[imron]

Personally I'd be happier being taught by an English major than a Chinese Literature major.

Out of curiosity why?

[Guest realmayo]

I think someone who has studied a foreign language is going to have a better idea how to teach a language to a foreigner than someone who hasn't. They'll have a better idea of their own weaknesses, and have models for what to aim at. And they'll be more focussed on improving the student's language ability than sharing the wonders of Chinese culture and civilisation.

 

This is just generalisation and guesswork of course! Best of course is 对外汉语-trained. It's fun to hear 对外汉语 graduates fume about how their friends all say 'do you really need training to teach Chinese to 老外？'

[imron]

Possibly, my experience (from many years ago, so maybe not relevant) is that they will like to drop into English as much as possible.  Conversely, one of the best teachers I had was a Chinese Literature major, which I guess skews my preferences somewhat.

[hongputaojiu]

Thanks guys, I do appreciate everyones feedback.

 

I have a lot of experience with this as I have studied at numerous language schools both in China and outside of China, on university exchange, on Confucius institute scholarship, on my home country government scholarship, and as a private fee payer in a private language school.

 

I am also a qualified school teacher in my home country. 

 

So I have seen fantastic teachers, motivated teachers, lazy teachers, unqualified teachers, teachers with other majors, life experience only teachers, etc etc. There is no perfect combo to get the best teacher. Having said that, I do believe having completed an undergraduate study in language education does teach you about how learners learn. Even the out-of-date normal university teaching programs will give some prep.

 

The best teacher I had was majored in 对外语 and followed up with a masters in the UK in education. I think this has given her the edge of other teachers - that is, the exposure to western educational teaching methodologies. 

 

I am still curious about the mysterious chinese teaching "certificate" though 

[zhouhaochen]

A Chinese teaching certificate might mean a lot or nothing at all. Private schools and universities both offer certificates, with some lasting several weeks and providing actual training, but many others just consisting out of a few hours of watching a teacher teach. I agree with the posters above that a "Teaching Chinese as a Foreign Language" (or 对外汉语) university degree is the most reliable and consistent qualification a Chinese teacher can hold at the moment.

 

However, I would recommend you look into the other aspects of the school as well. Studying Chinese in China is actually quite a complex thing and to ensure you do not have a room above a 24/7 karaoke bar and a classroom with air conditioning, might be also very important both for your experience and language progress.

[onebir]

Bedroom above a 24/7 karaoke bar

+

classrooom with 90 humidity

=

total immersion

[hongputaojiu]

so on the basis of everyone's advice, I will give omeida a miss. They have confirmed they cannot guarantee a qualified teacher. I would also recommend others give them a miss too.

 

still not certain about the Dali/Lijiang school. Anyone been there? At least they say they have university qualified teachers. 

[onebir]

See

http://www.gokunming.com/en/forums/thread/11680/huayang_school

 

& other search results:

http://www.gokunming.com/en/forums/all/?search=huayang

[michaelS]

Try Chinese Language Institute (CLI) in Guilin. You can visit Yangshuo at the weekends

[Omeida Chinese Yangshuo]

Hi hongputaojiu,

 

Again, thank you very much for your time and effort doing research and comparison between our school and other schools. You and Wanda had a long conversation on wechat, you shared with us your past unhappy experience and critics of learning Chinese in many schools, express your requests and concerns, so Wanda recommended different programs to you accordingly. We appreciate that you asked questions about almost every aspect of our courses and school, which means you really take Omeida into your consideration.

 

We were so regretful to hear you make the conclusion that our teachers are unqualified, judged simply by their education background. As explained to you on wechat, we hire teachers not only considering their majors, but also their teaching experience, their potential and enthusiasms to become an excellent teacher teaching Chinese to foreign students.

We honestly told you that not all of our teachers are from TCFL majors, but our non-TCFL major teachers are all with years of experience and are even more popular according to our past students’ feedbacks. You said you classify a teacher without TCFL major as unqualified teacher no matter how experienced he/she is. Well, if you think so we respect your opinion.

 

To your question if we can guarantee a Qualified teacher to teach your class or not, we explained that we cannot foresee which teacher will be available to teach your class since we have students leave and come almost every week, and we update our teaching timetable every Friday. Especially in summer, we cannot tell so long in advance which teacher will teach which class. If only a teacher from non-TCFL major is available to teach your class from your first week here, and we guarantee that your teacher will be 100% for sure with TCFL major, which means we might need to change teachers for many other classes, and this is unfair for other students. We don’t want to cheat you so we tell you the truth, and also respect your choice to come or not.

 

Although you decided not to give Omeida a try, we hope you find a good school meet your expectations and make you satisfied. Enjoy your study this summer. If you do have chance to visit Yangshuo and talk with our students, you will find the conclusion that non-TCFL teachers are unqualified is not agreed by all.

 

Anya from Yangshuo Omeida

[hongputaojiu]

 

 

you make the conclusion that our teachers are unqualified, judged simply by their education background. 

 

yes I did. I think people should really think hard about this before spending their money at a language "school".

 

what disappoints me is that it too me asking many specific questions to eventually find this out from your representative. I can only assume if people don't know what questions to ask they may never know. if people are happy to pay money knowing that their language trainer is not a qualified teacher, that's ok.

 

I would just give my recommendation that I wouldn't want someone without a solid background in education teaching me. that's coming from a qualified school teacher. I hope it doesn't upset the tefl crowd but I still stand by it.

 

Therefore I would not use your organisation, especially as it is quite expensive at 150RMB per hour for HSK training when you cant guarantee they are a real teacher.

 

But I do appreciate your reply.

[Guest realmayo]

when you cant guarantee they are a real teacher.

 

I think this is a ridiculous  edit: over-the-top thing to say. There's zero guarantee that someone with four years of 对外汉语 studying behind them will be a better teacher than someone with four years of actual teaching experience.

 

Earlier I wrote that "Best of course is 对外汉语-trained" but on reflection I think I'm wrong to say that; it's simply another data point to help you guess who would or would not be a good teacher.