Finished HSK 3, now onto HSK 4

[叫我小山]

Hello everyone, I am new to this forum as a member, but not as a "lurker". I've had a majority of my own Chinese questions answered indirectly by other members asking and receiving amazing answers from other more-educated folks on here. I am learning Mandarin because my girlfriend is from Shanghai and we are going to meet the parents in November. I've never even left Canada, let alone go to the other side of the planet!

 

Anyway, I've been slowly (and without haste, unfortunately) been learning the HSK levels for the last year, but since the springtime I've been in overdrive learning 10 new words a day and conversing with my Chinese friends as much as possible [sorry guys for the mistakes], so I've finished HSK 3 and just got level 4 on my phone now and have some worksheets to go through. Going from 300 level III words to 600 even tougher level IV words will be a challenge, but I think I can do it before November with time to spare I think.

 

Does this seem like a reasonable timeframe? And Hanban says the HSK 4 is "Designed for learners who can discuss a relatively wide range of topics in Chinese and are capable of communicating fluently with Chinese speakers."

 

Really? Anyone here who's finished HSK 4 been moderately fluent?

 

Thanks guys

[Tianjin42]

When someone tells me his or her HSK level, I have a ballpark idea of what level their Chinese is at, but in terms of ability to have a conversation there is still a lot of scope.

The HSK is a very useful path to improve Chinese but ultimately it reveals your ability to pass that test rather than real life Chinese ability i.e. the language skills to live and function.

Since your central goal is to converse with your girlfriend's family (and I'm guessing they speak 普通话 as well as 上海话) I would recommend:

1, Pushing on with HSK 4 - after all, HSK offers a logical path to expand vocabulary, understanding of grammar etc, as well as listening skills and the increased understanding of the mechanics of the language you will need to build on to achieve fluency.

2, Try to practice speaking to a few native speakers if you can find some. I have encountered a number of Chinese learners who achieved HSK in their home countries but then took a few months to sync it with their real life Chinese ability on arriving in China for the first time.

Best of luck!

[mouse]

Just as I was about to post this, Tianjin42 basically said what I was going to say. But here's my tuppence-worth anyway:

 

I wouldn't worry about fluency — it doesn't really mean anything. No matter how hard you work you'll most likely still struggle with real conversations come November, but that's ok. I would avoid focusing solely on the HSK and pay particular attention to improving your listening abilities, as talking to your girlfriend's parents will be the real test. If you only focus on the HSK then what you're really doing is training your ability to take exams, which isn't what you're going to Shanghai for. Of course exams like the HSK can be a useful benchmark, but they don't necessarily reflect one's strengths and weaknesses in the real world. It might be a good idea to look at Glossika's Chinese course, as it trains your listening and speaking abilities quite intensively.

 

Also it might be a good idea to practice trying to describe things that you don't know the Chinese word for, as this is a very useful skill that you will almost certainly need to make use of. Try looking at Chinese dictionary definitions, the Guifan dictionary on pleco would be a good one to use as the definitions aren't too literary. Work hard, but don't stress yourself out. The fact that you speak any Chinese at all will be enough to impress, so just continue to put the work in without worrying about fluency and that sort of thing.

[snowflake]

Given your goals and current level, I'd like to echo the idea of working Glossika.  There are Fluency 123 GSR Day 15 clips at https://soundcloud.com/glossika.  I've been very happy how the Glossika material has affected my listening comprehension and speaking fluidity.  

 

Good luck!

[叫我小山]

I really appreciate the responses guys, thanks! With your advice, I am going to try Glossika, as I've read a lot of good things about it. I also finished Pimsleur 1 and 2, now just starting 3, so after that I'll start Glossika. Any source of Chinese can't be bad, and the more the better I'd think.

 

Cheers,

[lechuan]

 

 

I also finished Pimsleur 1 and 2, now just starting 3

 

加油！Pimsleur has also released level 4 and 5.

[叫我小山]

Hey, guys! I visited Shanghai with my girlfriend and it was a blast. First time using my passport lol. I have finished HSK 4 vocab and am working through the grammar for it. Most of the common, everyday speech is found within these characters and words up to HSK 4, so I guess I'll work on them then eventually start level 5. 

 

On another note, just being there 3 weeks, I found that my listening skills improved a good amount. I still had trouble with more high-level communications and queries, but I could find I would be able to understand the topic and most important detail of conversations. The BIGGEST issue of visiting Shanghai is that they mostly speak 上海话, and I would find myself lost completely at times and then they would randomly interject while I was listening to them with "你听懂了吗?", it was quite annoying. All this work to learn a language and to go and find it only 50% useful in that city. But most young people our age spoke mandarin around me knowing I was learning it, which was cool.

 

A cool thing about the trip was we went to Beijing for 4 days and hearing all the 儿化音 was quite a trip. I didn't know 北京话 deviated that much from 普通话.

[jgraham11]

I agree with what Mouse said previously about not focusing so much on the HSK vocab so much as the real world vocab. What I mean by that is i've noticed that when I was studying the HSK level 4 vocab there was a lot of vocab in there that I barely even use in English. Not all of it of course, but a decent amount. I definitely would focus more on the listening comprehension because at this point you probably know enough to at least respond to questions or comment or whatever someone would say to you in Chinese, albeit maybe not eloquently. Not to mention are you really going to need to know how to write the characters? I'd say just focus on the listening comprehension and maybe go over the level 4 vocab words that you can envision using a lot. IMO HSK level 4 is probably the biggest jump. I mean basically after that comes 5 which is basically considered fluent for a foreigner. If I'm not mistaken level 6 is considered native level which is obviously the goal, but maybe not always practical

[mackie1402]

Glad you enjoyed your trip! Nothing better than actually getting to use what you've learnt!

 

Since you went there to meet your girlfriends family, you probably encountered a lot more local language than a typical traveler would. Don't be put off though! I didn't meet my wife's family for quite a while when I first moved to China, and never really noticed much of the local language. That was until she introduced me to her family. Since then we've had many meals, days out and even trips to England together where I've actually picked up a bit of local language myself! They will always talk to me using standard mandarin, but every time it's to each other its local. I rather enjoy it!

 

Since your last post and your trip to Shanghai, what's your opinion on how you studied? Anything you wish you did more in preparation? Anything you studied which you felt you didn't really benefit from once you were in Shanghai?

[jgraham11]

6 hours ago, 叫我小山 said:

Hey, guys! I visited Shanghai with my girlfriend and it was a blast. First time using my passport lol. I have finished HSK 4 vocab and am working through the grammar for it. Most of the common, everyday speech is found within these characters and words up to HSK 4, so I guess I'll work on them then eventually start level 5. 

 

On another note, just being there 3 weeks, I found that my listening skills improved a good amount. I still had trouble with more high-level communications and queries, but I could find I would be able to understand the topic and most important detail of conversations. The BIGGEST issue of visiting Shanghai is that they mostly speak 上海话, and I would find myself lost completely at times and then they would randomly interject while I was listening to them with "你听懂了吗?", it was quite annoying. All this work to learn a language and to go and find it only 50% useful in that city. But most young people our age spoke mandarin around me knowing I was learning it, which was cool.

 

A cool thing about the trip was we went to Beijing for 4 days and hearing all the 儿化音 was quite a trip. I didn't know 北京话 deviated that much from 普通话.

 

 

Actually, I'm curious to what you thought about Shanghainese? I've only ever been to Shanghai like yourself and Suzhou both of which have pretty distinct dialects. If you're anything like me though I never had any idea what was being said in Shanghainese haha. It seems almost everyone over there uses it though, especially older people. The only time someone would speak Mandarin to me was if I initiated the conversation in Mandarin to begin with

[叫我小山]

4 hours ago, jgraham11 said:

 

 

Actually, I'm curious to what you thought about Shanghainese? I've only ever been to Shanghai like yourself and Suzhou both of which have pretty distinct dialects. If you're anything like me though I never had any idea what was being said in Shanghainese haha. It seems almost everyone over there uses it though, especially older people. The only time someone would speak Mandarin to me was if I initiated the conversation in Mandarin to begin with

 

Shanghainese is really cool, actually. To me there are some really similar words and sounds, then others are completely different. It also sucks that there is no real standard romanization like Pinyin in Mandarin. 

 

I am learning a few words daily, but only for listening. The pronunciation is brutal, and I always mess it up when my girlfriend tries teaching me. I figure I can learn to listen and understand a bit of what people are saying, but I will focus on and spend more time earning 普通话 seriously, as it is more practical.

 

Another thing to note: native older 上海人 speak some common Mandarin sounds with an accent. For example, one time my girlfriend's mom was teaching me a Mandarin word, and my gf scolded her for using the wrong pronunciation, It was something like 坚持, but with the accent, she had me following with something that sounded like 坚“词“

 

most "shi" sounds become "si", and "chi" sounds become "ci". I have to accustoming to do it seems...

[叫我小山]

6 hours ago, mackie1402 said:

Since your last post and your trip to Shanghai, what's your opinion on how you studied? Anything you wish you did more in preparation? Anything you studied which you felt you didn't really benefit from once you were in Shanghai?

 

I should have focused more on speaking. Listening is easy as it is passive, but formulating statements and questions always takes more time. I should have put writing and reading second to listening and mainly speaking. If I know every character in the world, but can't reply to a simple question competently, did I really use the time right? So, I am speaking more and more, but I found the most progress was in China when I *had* to speak it when my gf wasn't around. It was kind of cool, a little sense of accomplishment for all those hours spent in my room studying.

[L-F-J]

I love Shanghainese. It sounds so much sweeter than Mandarin, in my opinion.

 

Been in Shanghai for some years now and have pretty much given up Mandarin. I only hear 乡下银 speak it, anyway. 

[jgraham11]

6 hours ago, L-F-J said:

I love Shanghainese. It sounds so much sweeter than Mandarin, in my opinion.

 

Been in Shanghai for some years now and have pretty much given up Mandarin. I only hear 乡下银 speak it, anyway. 

 

 

I was pretty discouraged when I went to visit my friend in Suzhou. We went to high school and college together in the states and I started to learn Mandarin to interact with him in his own language and because I planned on visiting a lot. Only to find out that in Suzhou they barely ever speak Mandarin in social or personal settings haha. I mean obviously they can all speak it, but it just seems like they'd rather not 

[imron]

18 hours ago, jgraham11 said:

If I'm not mistaken level 6 is considered native level

Unfortunately, you are mistaken. HSK 6 is far from native level.  Very far even. 

[jgraham11]

27 minutes ago, imron said:

Unfortunately, you are mistaken. HSK 6 is far from native level.  Very far even. 

 

5000 words seems like some level of fluency. So you're saying level 6 is just considered fluent? Nothing more

[mackie1402]

40 minutes ago, jgraham11 said:

5000 words seems like some level of fluency. So you're saying level 6 is just considered fluent? Nothing more

 

I have quite a few friends who passed the new HSK6. A lot of them went to classes on "How to pass the HSK6" over here. They know a lot of words when they see them. They can also listen and understand a good amount. When it comes to writing and speaking however they really struggle.

 

If you Wikipedia HSK you'll see some associations don't rank it as high as Hanban.  (Let me try this whole uploading a picture thing..)

 

 

If you're not too familiar with CEFR, B2 is basically upper intermediate, which is can understand the main ideas and interact with a degree of fluency.

 

Also, the HSKK is the spoken exam. For their advanced test you only need an estimated 3000 words. Seems pretty low.

 

Here are a couple of links:

 

HSK details - Wikipedia

 

CEFR Levels explained - Wikipedia

[jgraham11]

6 minutes ago, mackie1402 said:

 

I have quite a few friends who passed the new HSK6. A lot of them went to classes on "How to pass the HSK6" over here. They know a lot of words when they see them. They can also listen and understand a good amount. When it comes to writing and speaking however they really struggle.

 

If you Wikipedia HSK you'll see some associations don't rank it as high as Hanban.  (Let me try this whole uploading a picture thing..)

 

If you're not too familiar with CEFR, B2 is basically upper intermediate, which is can understand the main ideas and interact with a degree of fluency.

 

Also, the HSKK is the spoken exam. For their advanced test you only need an estimated 3000 words. Seems pretty low.

 

 

 

Here are a couple of links:

 

HSK details - Wikipedia

 

CEFR Levels explained - Wikipedia

 

 

Wow, that's interesting that they have trouble speaking it. At the end of the day as long as I can understand and speak it I'm happy. Knowing a good amount of characters is important, but to be honest I don't invest much time in hanzi writing. That being said I could probably never pass any HSK exams cause of that aspect. I didn't know there was such a thing as the HSKK, i'm going to look into that for sure, sounds like it's more up my alley. 

[mackie1402]

3 minutes ago, jgraham11 said:

Wow, that's interesting that they have trouble speaking it.

 

It seems very typical of Chinese education to me. I've met many Chinese university students studying abroad who have a better vocabulary than me in English, but they can't use the words correctly in sentences. In fact, they even struggle to put sentences together without pausing every other word. That being said, I've also met some students with fantastic English! I briefly studied Chinese at a University here in Hangzhou for 1 summer and all I got was talked to. Even the speaking class was the teacher explaining what the dialogues mean and  how its different to written form. It greatly improved my listening and reading, but speaking and writing not to much.

 

7 minutes ago, jgraham11 said:

Knowing a good amount of characters is important, but to be honest I don't invest much time in hanzi writing.

 

I've just moved on to this approach. I've disabled writing characters on Skritter so I focus on reading and translating them. Sped up my learning a lot! I'm just focusing on speaking, listening and reading now. I dabble with a bit of writing every so often, but on when I'm emailing, messaging, or typing. I never practice writing by hand any more.

[jgraham11]

20 minutes ago, mackie1402 said:

 

It seems very typical of Chinese education to me. I've met many Chinese university students studying abroad who have a better vocabulary than me in English, but they can't use the words correctly in sentences. In fact, they even struggle to put sentences together without pausing every other word. That being said, I've also met some students with fantastic English! I briefly studied Chinese at a University here in Hangzhou for 1 summer and all I got was talked to. Even the speaking class was the teacher explaining what the dialogues mean and  how its different to written form. It greatly improved my listening and reading, but speaking and writing not to much.

 

 

I've just moved on to this approach. I've disabled writing characters on Skritter so I focus on reading and translating them. Sped up my learning a lot! I'm just focusing on speaking, listening and reading now. I dabble with a bit of writing every so often, but on when I'm emailing, messaging, or typing. I never practice writing by hand any more.

 

 

Maybe this will be make me sound bad to the people who value knowing how to write hanzi. But to me unless you're planning on translating, working for a chinese company, being some sort of diplomat or something alone those lines then it seems a little impractical to spend too much time on knowing how to write it. But, if it helps someone learn the language more then more power to them