强中更有强中手

[kavanin]

Would you please explain the meaning (or function) of the 2nd 中 in the 谚语 "强中更有强中手"?

[roddy]

I know it's not essential for your question, but it makes things a lot more interesting for other users if you explain where you found this, what the context is, what your best guess is, etc. 

[陳德聰]

I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression the second 中 is the same as the first one...

[kavanin]

@roddy:

I agree. I almost always supply proper context to my questions, but because this is a proverb and was taken from a book about Chinese proverbs and the book only explains it, I thought when a native speaker sees it, he is likely to recognize it. Before I post it here, I've googled it for about half an hour and found that it was listed in many online dictionaries like dict.baidu.com, zdic.net, iciba.com, tw.ichacha.net ... Unfortunately I couldn't find any page that has the answer to my question, apparently there is nothing interesting about it for native speakers, so I asked here.

As for my best guest:
For the whole sentence, iciba.com gives this definition: However strong you are, there's always someone stronger.; Among the stronger there is always a stronger.

 

For 强手 Wenlin gives this definition: ①high-level and very capable person; strong opponent ②master player

Then I asked myself, if 强手 means strong, then what's 中 doing between 强 and 手? It may be that it's not there for its meaning but some other purpose like 语气 or rhythm or whatever.

 

Then again, maybe my problem is not with 中 but with 手 or 更有 or something else, as it usually happens to me that I often knock the wrong door, but I cannot know it until a native speaker or someone more knowledgeable than me say a few words about it.

[imron]

That would have made a much better first post!

[Publius]

Hi~

My explanation is the second 中 is simply there for euphonic reasons.

First, it makes the proverb seven characters long.

Of course 强手中更有强手 is also seven characters long, but

强中更有强中手

平平仄仄平平仄

sounds much better, because, you know, the metre of classical poems!

[roddy]

Kavanin - yes, much better! Also, your email address seems to be rejecting forums emails...

[kavanin]

I was also curious as to why I no longer get forums notifications. I defined a new mail address (but the validation request mail was in spam, I don't know why)

[kavanin]

@Publius:

Thank you for your explanation.

I'm also inclined to think that way. I found a longer version of the proverb: 强中更有强中手，能人背后有能人. Both parts are 7 characters long. I also seem to have heard something about tones, beside meter, that they also follow a certain order to preserve rhythm (but I don't remember the details).

[Publius]

The rhythm or prosody in verse is achieved through different means. In English it's the alternating pattern of stressed and unstressed syllables. For example:

Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?

   ×   / |  ×     /    |  ×    /  | ×    /  |  ×       /  ||

This is iambic pentameter, consisting of five feet, each foot an unstressed syllable followed by a stressed syllable.

 

In Chinese, it's the alternating pattern of level tones (平声) and oblique tones (仄声). 'Level' corresponds to Middle Chinese level tone (平声), or 1st tone (阴平) and 2nd tone (阳平) in Mandarin. All three other tones in Middle Chinese are considered 'oblique'. They are the rising tone (上声), or 3rd tone in Mandarin; the departing tone (去声), or 4th tone in Mandarin; and the entering tone (入声), which is really just a syllable ending in /p/, /t/, /k/. Entering tone has disappeared from Mandarin but is preserved to various extents in other topolects, e.g. 入 is jap6 in Cantonese, ngip8 in Hakka.

 

Starting from around the Tang dynasty, people found some tone patterns more pleasing to the ear, and they started to use these patterns, a lot, in poetry. Regulated verse (近体诗) grew out of this practice. The most basic tone patterns can be found in this 五言绝句 (five-syllable quatrain):

白日依山尽，【(仄)仄平平仄】①

黄河入海流。【平平仄仄平】②

欲穷千里目，【(平)平平仄仄】③

更上一层楼。【(仄)仄仄平平】④

Parentheses means the other alternative is acceptable but not preferred at that position. In this short piece 白, 日, 入, 欲, 目, 一 are entering tones.

Notice pattern #2 is the inversion of #1, #4 is the inversion of #3; and the first two syllables in line #2 and #3 share the same tone.

 

Other patterns can be derived from these four basic patterns through expansion and repetition. For example this 七言绝句 (seven-syllable quatrain):

朝辞白帝彩云间，【(平)平(仄)仄仄平平】④

千里江陵一日还。【(仄)仄平平仄仄平】②

两岸猿声啼不住，【(仄)仄(平)平平仄仄】③

轻舟已过万重山。【(平)平(仄)仄仄平平】④

 

Or this 词牌 (ci tune) called 《临江仙》:

滚滚长江东逝水，【(仄)仄(平)平平仄仄】③

浪花淘尽英雄。【(平)平(仄)仄平平】②

是非成败转头空。【(平)平(仄)仄仄平平】④

青山依旧在，【(平)平平仄仄】③

几度夕阳红。【(仄)仄仄平平】④

 

The proverb you quoted is not exactly poetry, but still fits into two established patterns:

强中更有强中手，【平平仄仄平平仄】①

能人背后有能人。【平平仄仄仄平平】④