比如 - Mian Mian and How to organize your thoughts in Chinese

[cingia]

Hi,

 

I was reading an interview to Mian Mian (http://www.china.com.cn/chinese/feature/750305.htm) and I found difficult to understand what she says here:

 

新京报:  能解释一你这部小说为什么叫"熊猫"吗?

绵绵: 我在封面上写了熊猫一年只做两次爱, 因此，很多人误会这是一部写性冷淡的小说，但其实，我写的是"熊猫"这个概念，比如， 我在小说里写到: 我妹妹说我是熊猫，熊猫一年只做两次爱。

我做的不多，但肯定超过两次。这就是小说里人物的生活，他们并不是一年只过两次性生活，也不是没有艳遇，但因为各种各样的原因，他们不再进行正常的性交往。

 

Which is the "logical connection" between the fact that she was just referring to "pandas" (so everybody was wrong to interpret the book as a story about frigidity) and the fact that she has written in the book that her sister called her "panda"?...Why does she use "比如" to connect the two parts? I think that she wants to say that the title of the book comes from that phrase (the phrase her sister told her: you are a Panda, Pandas have sex only two times a year)... But isn't a bit weird the way she puts it into words?...And then I arrive to my second point: sometimes I understand all the words, all the grammar, but it's still so difficult to get the meaning. Do you have this kind of problems? Do you think that the way things are explained in Chinese (logic/argumentation) is quite different from the way Europeans/Americans explain things? How to study this sort of "special syntax" (syntax is the set of rules that govern word order in sentences, here the problem is "sentence order" in a discourse)?

 

Anyway, does 比如 is linked to "这个概念"？ Then it would be - "However what I was writing was the following concept (比如 like，for example) : In the book I write that my sister etc...I don't have too much sex, but... ". Is it correct?

 

Thanks

[Angelina]

Yes, argumentation is different.

Also, this person is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[cingia]

How would you translate that part?

[陳德聰]

I think you could understand this if you replaced 比如 with "like".

She explains that she wrote this panda quote on the front and that there was no context so everyone thinks it's just about having no libido when in reality it's about people not having sex for reasons external and/or internal. She explains that the misunderstanding comes from taking it too literally rather than understanding the panda as a metaphor.

P.s. There is no mystical Chinese syntax magic that you need to learn. European languages don't even necessarily share syntax among each other.

[陳德聰]

Whoops.

[Publius]

this person is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Lol, understatement like this is hard for a language learner to grasp.

(But I agree with your assessment. )

 

sometimes I understand all the words, all the grammar, but it's still so difficult to get the meaning.

Well, it happens all the time to Chinese students who are learning English. A frequent complaint is Westerners' way of thinking is so different. I don't know if it's true. The only thing I can say to them is you have to understand the context and the intention of the speaker. Then probably you can see the logic, or the lack thereof, behind their statements.

 

In this particular case, one thing to bear in mind is: punctuation rules are very lax in Chinese.

……。比如：我在小说里写到“我妹妹说我是熊猫，熊猫一年只做两次爱”——我做的不多，但肯定超过两次。这就是这就是小说里人物的生活……

This is probably more proper style. What 比如 introduces is a much longer sentence. The author is basically saying: You shouldn't take what's on the cover (熊猫一年只做两次爱) at face value. It's a metaphor! Then she offers the fact that "I" do have sex more than twice a year as a reason why you shouldn't read too literally (whether that's effective is another matter).

Hope this helps.

[cingia]

How to translate " 我写的是"熊猫"这个概念"？At first I thought that 这个概念 meant: On the cover, I mean Pandas (literally this concept), not to the characters in the book.

Now, after your suggestions, I think that the expression 这个概念 is just an introduction to what follows, so I would translate as: When I wrote Pandas, I was referring to the following concept: (like, for example) my sister told me that I am a Panda. I don't have too much sex, but... ect.

Right?

 

[cingia]

Ps: Sometimes I think that the way we think is the same, but while we are obsessed with "style" and "clarity", a lot of Chinese just put out words without caring too much if what they say is coeherent and "fluid" to the ears of the listener.

[cingia]

For example: I've just written "I think the way we think". It sounds horrible, but in Chinese nobody would care.

[cingia]

Or maybe my chinese skills are just too low...   Thanks to 陳 and Publius I see that maybe the phrase was not so strange/difficult as I thought.

[Angelina]

Each individual has their own way of thinking.

 

I don't think the writer of 《熊猫》is a good example, a bit like Carmen Miranda, taking metaphors that are easy to sell and not offering much more. 

 

Chinese education (mainland China) does not put an emphasis on grammar and logic, yet, just because most people are not explicitly taught grammar it does not mean that there are no rules. I have noticed that prosody is important. 

 

概念 means a concept. 

[cingia]

Angelina, it's true that prosody is important, and Mian Mian is not Shakespeare... However I hear this kind of "constructions" everywhere.. If you watch the videos that accompany "The Routledge advanced Chinese multimedia course", 99,99% of the spoken languagen is articulated that way

[Angelina]

when people are taught "constructions" instead of argumentation, you get Mian Mian

 

ahhhhh

 

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

[陳德聰]

The criticism is interesting... I honestly find this type of answer in speech to be completely normal and acceptable...

Here 我寫的是"熊貓"這個概念 means exactly what you think it means, but it looks like what you're having trouble with is what the concept of a "panda" is. She is explaining how she means to use the term "panda" to refer to people who for whatever reason don't have sex often.

Think about this whole exchange paraphrased:

A: Can you explain for us why you called this novel "Pandas"?

B: Well on the cover I wrote that pandas only have sex twice a year, so lots of people have misunderstood and think that I've written a story about having no sexual appetite, when in reality I've written a story about "pandas" as a concept. E.g. I wrote in the story that my sister says I am a panda, because pandas only have sex twice a year.

I don't have a lot of sex, but I definitely have it more than twice a year. This is just the life of the characters in the story. They certainly don't only have sex twice a year, nor are they void of chances to hook up, but for all kinds of reasons, they simply just don't have normal sex lives anymore.

The bolded part is what I understand to be an explanation of what she means when she says the concept of a "panda", whereas just like Publius showed, the example is an example of a place where the writer alludes to pandas in the novel, but not an example of the concept of a panda. I am not sure why this has anything to do with argumentation.

[lips]

For example: I've just written "I think the way we think". It sounds horrible (I'm Italian, and we never say it), but in Chinese nobody would care.

Why would they care?  It's English!

 

Seriously, I've heard, all the time, many, many lax usage of terms, words, grammar, sometimes outright wrong grammar, in normal conversation in English, by natives, as well.  It's just normal when you're speaking spontaneously and your thoughts maybe changing in the middle of sentences.  You don't think out a paragraph in advance and "edit" each word and sentences perfectly before opening your mouth.

 

I don't know Italian.  Maybe Italians always speak perfect Italian. 

[BanZhiYun]

新京报:  能解释一你这部小说为什么叫"熊猫"吗?

Everything's pretty straightforward here.

 

绵绵: 我在封面上写了熊猫一年只做两次爱, 因此，很多人误会这是一部写性冷淡的小说(argument 1)，但(but)其实，我写的是"熊猫"这个概念(argument 2)，比如， 我在小说里写到: 我妹妹说我是熊猫，熊猫一年只做两次爱。

我做的不多，但肯定超过两次。这就是小说里人物的生活，他们并不是一年只过两次性生活，也不是没有艳遇，但因为各种各样的原因，他们[小说里的人物］不再进行正常的性交往。(conclusion)

To be honest, I think there needs to be a little more context to be 100% accurate on what's the 概念. Basically, from the above text, we know it's not “性冷淡的”, but moreso it's “因为各种各样的原因，不再进行正常的交往。" Do you have the full text of the interview? I tried to CTRL + F the first question, but didn't see it in the link you posted. Maybe I should read the whole thing tomorrow. What I gathered is, the book is basically not talking people who just have it twice a year, because they don't have a libido, but for some reason, their interactions are not as what [they] would like them to be, or not "normal" as she said. But I still would prefer if there was more 上下文 to be 100% accurate.

[陳德聰]

@ #16

It's under the bolded heading: 我寫的是"熊貓"這個概念

If you keep reading, she is talking about 熊貓 being a 人群, and explains the concept explicitly.