Chinese-Chinese Dictionaries

[mikelove]

Greetings all,

My company (http://www.pleco.com/) is looking to license a Chinese-to-Chinese dictionary for our PlecoDict dictionary software. We've been trying to do this for most of the year, in fact, but thus far our efforts have been less-than-entirely-successful - our first choice, the Xiandai Hanyu Cidian, proved to be completely impossible (and we really tried very hard), and the best option we've found so far is the "Xiandai Zhongwen Cidian" by Commercial Press. This is about the same size as the Xiandai Hanyu, but the entries are different - they're pretty similar in a lot of cases, but there aren't as many new words as the 2002 update of the Xiandai Hanyu, and though it's in simplified characters it doesn't seem to have a lot of Beijinghua (though I suppose that's covered quite well by the ABC dictionary we already offer).

Anyway, before we go ahead and license this Xiandai Zhongwen title (or even after, there's no law that says we can't have two Chinese-Chinese dictionaries) I thought I'd ask if anybody has any recommendations for other good Chinese-Chinese dictionaries they've run across. We're not looking to license something on the scale of a Hanyu Da Cidian or a Cihai just yet, but something in the 50,000-60,000 entry range of these two Xiandais or maybe a little bigger than that would be ideal. I think the Longman one has been mentioned here once or twice - any particular reason why that's a good choice?

Many thanks for any help you can provide,

Michael Love

Pleco Software

[skylee]

... and the best option we've found so far is the "Xiandai Zhongwen Cidian" by Commercial Press. This is about the same size as the Xiandai Hanyu, but the entries are different - they're pretty similar in a lot of cases, but there aren't as many new words as the 2002 update of the Xiandai Hanyu, and though it's in simplified characters it doesn't seem to have a lot of Beijinghua (though I suppose that's covered quite well by the ABC dictionary we already offer).

You seem to say that it is important for the dictionary to be in simplified characters and with a lot of Beijinghua. Why?

As to the Longman one, do you mean 朗文中文高級新辭典. I think this one is good because it is modern, in traditional Chinese, with hanyu pinyin, zhuyin fuhao, cantonese pronunciations, cangjie codes and about 60,000 entries with good explanations. Cantonese pronunciations and traditional characters are important to Hong Kong people.

Xiandai Hanyu Cidian is good (now there is a version in traditional Chinese). But it has no Cantonese pronunciations.

[mikelove]

Simplified/Beijinghua important for our customer base - a very high percentage of our customers are either working or studying in Beijing. Still, all-in-all the Xiandai Zhongwen is a pretty good dictionary, and it really is very similar to the Xiandai Hanyu, so it's not a bad choice.

But we do also have a large contingent from HK and Taiwan as well, and it sounds like the Longmen dictionary would be a great dictionary for them - do the Cantonese pronunciations cover all headwords or only single-character ones?

[in_lab]

There's a sample page from the dictionary that's viewable. The only problem is that it will drive you crazy if you try to read the tiny/blurry print. It says 50,000 headwords.

http://www.cp1897.com.hk/BookInfo?BookId=962070181X&SectionId=10&AllId=0&Action=53

It looks comparable with other dictionaries in this range, like the one below.

http://www.marshallcavendish.com/marshallcavendish/education/sg/browse/catalogue/dictionaries/chinese/dictionaries_n_reference/9810139225.xml

[carlo]

Since you don't rule out having more than one Chinese-Chinese dictionary....

- In the Longman dictionaries Cantonese pronunciation is only given for character head entries, not for compounds (you'll find the latter only in dialect dictionaries) - still better than nothing. Most foreign students of Chinese end up in HK sooner or later and jyutping reading for each character entry would be very useful. Note also that the HK Longman dictionaries come in various formats, and the one skylee recommends 高級新詞典 is the most comprehensive.

- A problem with both Xiandai Hanyu and Zhongwen Cidian is that there are no part-of-speech markings, which can be unconvenient for learners, if the example sentences are poor. I suggest you have a look at 现代汉语规范词典 (外语教学与研究出版社) - 68,000 headwords:

现代汉语规范词典

I think this would be a good mainland-based alternative to Xiandai Hanyu.

- You should also check 简明应用汉语词典. IMHO this is one of the most useful monolingual dictionaries out there and it would nicely complement ABC, as it's strong on regional expressions, cultural knowledge (stories behind idioms etc), and has many example sentences. (30,000 word entries)

http://www.cp.com.cn/scrp/bookdetail.cfm?iBookNo=851&sYc=1-1

- 现代汉语学习词典 (上海外语教育出版社) is the best monolingual dictionary for foreign learners, with the sort of info you won't find anywhere else: which measure words goes with each word, at least two example sentences for every entry, and accurate, helpful definitions, for a total of 20000+ word entries. The print version is hard to find in bookstores, but you can still obtain a copy from the publishers in Shanghai.

Finally, if you manage to bundle all this stuff in with the next version of Pleco, you've got yourself a new customer.

[mikelove]

in_lab, thanks for the link - I've already found a printed copy (not going to license something sight unseen) but it's interesting to see how they market it.

And carlo, thanks very much for the suggestions. Single-character Cantonese pronunciation is already available in the Unihan database, so if that's all the Longman dictionaries provide then it's not that major a selling point. Part-of-speech isn't a big problem either, really - we're planning to add merged search results in a future version of our software (a la Kingsoft), so if the part of speech isn't clear from the Chinese entry the user will be able to simply scroll down and get it from the ABC dictionary.

But I'll definitely take a look at the titles you mention - 现代汉语学习词典 might be a bit of a problem since I believe the copyright is held by CASS (which we've already struck out with licensing the 现代汉语词典), but 现代汉语规范词典 is by FLTRP, which seems to have a much better-developed licensing operation, and 简明应用汉语词典 is by Commercial Press, who we already have a relationship with.