Another 是...的 Question

[bossidy]

世界上有哪些国家可以说是男女平等的国家?

I'm assuming this sentence basically means, "What county can say that it provides equality between men and women".

I work on this stuff alone and it's probably a really dumb request, but I'd be eternally grateful if someone could parse the complete sentence for me and also explain why (1) shi..de is used and (2) why the ending 国家 is needed.

Thanks.

[Yuchi]

1. Not too good at that, but I'll try. "男女平等" is the adjective, where as "是" is the "to be" verb and 的 is used to attach the adjective to the object "国家".

2. Because earlier in the sentence, they failed to mention what "is" or what 是 is referring to, so they placed the object at the end. I would've put 他们 in so it would've been "世界上有哪些国家可以说他们是男女平等的国家?"

I'm pretty sure, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[roddy]

I'm going to try a different parse. I don't think it is a 是。。。的 sentence.

世界上有哪些国家可以说(他们)是(男女平等的国家)

The 的 joins 男女平等 and 国家 together to make the noun phrase 男女平等的国家, so (starting from 他们) it's a relatively simple A 是 B sentence, grammatically no more difficult than 他是老师.

The 是。 。 。的 parse would give you

世界上有哪些国家可以说他们是男女平等的国家?

I think the first one is a simpler, more accurate explanation of the grammar of it.

As for the additional 国家, I don't think it's necessary. I think you could equally have

世界上有哪些国家可以说他们是男女平等的?

ending with the adjective phrase 男女平等的

but ending with 男女平等的国家?

stresses that we are talking about nations, and perhaps makes the sentence a bit stronger - noun 是 noun, rather than noun 是 adjective.

Hope that helps (and that it's right)

Roddy

[xiaocai]

I think "可以说" is more like "can be said" rather than "can say" in this sentence.

[Jose]

Xiaocai makes a very good point, which explains why 可以说 is often used with inanimate subjects. I think 可以说是 is a very common collocation which can be translated as "can be said to be" or, more loosely, "can be regarded as". For example, to say "Chinese can be regarded as a difficult language", you can say (please correct me if I'm wrong) "Hanyu keyishuoshi yi zhong hen nan de yuyan". Obviously, it is people in general, and not the Chinese language itself, who say so.

I also agree with Yuchi and Roddy that this is not a shi(...)de construction.

My parse for the sentence would be as follows:

世界上 In the world

有哪些国家 (there are) which countries ?

Note the use of 有 here. This is the pivotal construction described in many textbooks.

Also note that 哪些国家 is a plural (些) and a question (哪).

可以说是 can be said to be

男女平等的国家 countries of man-woman equality

[anonymoose]

世界上有哪些国家可以说是男女平等的国家?

I'd analyse it as follows:

世界上 In the world

有哪些国家 there are which countries

可以说是 can be said to be

男女平等的 sexual equality (as an adjective)

国家 countries

Because earlier in the sentence, they failed to mention what "is" or what 是 is referring to, so they placed the object at the end. I would've put 他们 in so it would've been "世界上有哪些国家可以说他们是男女平等的国家?"

I don't have a very good feeling for what's natural and what isn't natural in Chinese, but it seems to me that the insertion of 他们 here is an anglocism, and sounds awkward in Chinese. Can any native speakers comment?