A Short List of Resources for Studying Chinese

[imron]

12 hours ago, Tomsima said:

but the srs system doesn't seem to work as well as pleco/supermemo itself

Most SRS algorithms are based on the various different supermemo ones.  Anki seems to be based on SM2.

 

Supermemo however has one of the worst UIs I've ever seen (even worse than Wenlin).  I used it back when it was the only SRS program in town, and I'm happy there are now many, many, many other options (they are almost all based on the workings and algorithms of SM though).

 

12 hours ago, mikelove said:

There's also a new default Pleco system which basically starts from the principle that SRS is not that useful for long-term recall (because long-term memory doesn't even really decay exponentially anyway); it uses fixed steps for learning / forgotten cards, but then lumps all of your 'review' cards into a big pool and doesn't try to schedule them / simply gives you however many you'd like roughly sorted by how long it's been since you last reviewed them

I like the sound of this.

[ZhuoMing]

12 hours ago, mikelove said:

Pleco 4

So when can we expect this to be released? ?

[mikelove]

1 hour ago, ZhuoMing said:

So when can we expect this to be released? ?

 

When it's ready. The plan is for it to basically drop out of the sky one day unannounced in the form of a TestFlight beta signup + probably some sort of preview post.

 

The core stuff is pretty much done + working well, it just takes a long time to fill in little subtle details + refine the UI to the point where everybody can use it. (the feedback benefits of releasing a rough early version are not really enough to cover the effort it would take to package one up, sadly)

[ZhuoMing]

12 minutes ago, mikelove said:

The plan is for it to basically drop out of the sky one day unannounced in the form of a TestFlight beta signup + probably some sort of preview post.

 

Thats good to hear, looking forward to it! 

[Tomsima]

16 hours ago, imron said:

Supermemo however has one of the worst UIs I've ever seen (even worse than Wenlin)

This was so cathartic to read. Supermemo is perhaps the worst UI that has ever existed. I hate it, it crashes with stupid bugs that could almost certainly be fixed quickly and easily,  its packed with 90s keyboard shortcuts, and the support website 'resolved' answers are almost always 'just dont press that button, learn to do it by pressing this combination instead and you'll get used to it eventually. That being said, I'm interested in the whole incremental reading thing, so im trying it out for a few months/one year to see whether or not it works for me. So far I actually really like it. Despite the program itself being stubbornly user-unfriendly.

[laurenth]

On 4/30/2019 at 1:08 AM, matteo said:

Can I ask why Anki seems to be so unpopular?

 

I don't think it's unpopular. And, for what it's worth, here is how I use it in combination with Pleco and Chinese Text Analyser. Once I have studied a text in CTA, I export the list of unknown words in this order:

 

- Simplified

- Sentence

- Pinyin

- English definition

 

In Anki, I import the file in a special "Export CTA" type, in which I incorporated a "hint" function  to reveal the sentence with the word in context:

 

 

 

If I don't have to click, on 比如说  to find the meaning, I consider the card is "easy". And Here's what happens if I do click on 比如说:

 

If I have to see the hint to find the meaning, I pass the card as difficult or correct, but not as 'easy'.

 

As you can see, I very often paste the word in Google image to find an illustrative picture. Somehow, it helps remembering.

 

As for Pleco, I use the option in "Flashcards" that sends words to Anki instead of the built-in Pleco flashcard system. One click. Easy as pie. 

 

And therefore I have a one-stop solution to study words taken from CTA and Pleco, with a hint on demand, and pictures (which I don't think Pleco will ever support). And anti-leech protection (which Pleco should support in one way or another).

 

 

Aside:  @mikelove I wanted to submit a capture of Pleco but when I tap Settings > Flashcards, Pleco systematically crashes. Version 3.2.63 for Android

[mikelove]

5 hours ago, laurenth said:

pictures (which I don't think Pleco will ever support)

 

Pictures are already implemented for 4.0 ? We'll probably add some sort of online image search support too eventually but not right away.

 

5 hours ago, laurenth said:

And anti-leech protection (which Pleco should support in one way or another).

 

We're adding a more obvious option for it in 4.0 (an actual checkbox that'll mention leeches), but it's already supported now via 'card filters', you just have go in and configure suitable criteria.

 

5 hours ago, laurenth said:

Aside:  @mikelove I wanted to submit a capture of Pleco but when I tap Settings > Flashcards, Pleco systematically crashes. Version 3.2.63 for Android

 

That's a new one - any chance Pleco might have lost its permission to connect to AnkiDroid?

 

[laurenth]

@mikelove Pleco is tendentially becoming like emacs. One day it will have a doctor mode (Chinese medicine, of course).

 

[Leslie Frank]

For the category of listening skills, how about adding a podcast for casual, informal conversations in Cantonese and Mandarin dealing mainly with health and medical matters. I need to talk with clients in Canto and Mando about their health and wellness, and as an ABC, there isn't much in the way of resources for such topics in English, Canto and Mando, so I've had to do a lot of research on my own, and thought it would be useful to share the kinds of information I've found. Tell me if you think these are useful:

https://soundcloud.com/leslie-frank-643243096
or
https://radiopublic.com/learn-cantonese-and-mandarin-for-8QdNJa
 

[艾墨本]

@Leslie Frank Very useful resources, however, far too niche for the purposes of this list. I try to keep the list focused for a general audience and want to avoid extensive lists like the ones linked at the top of the post.

[Leslie Frank]

@艾墨本, gotcha...

[艾墨本]

Hey all. Looking to update this list. Noticed a couple things don't exist anymore and have already removed them. Any resources that can be replaced with something better?

[Jan Finster]

Please add Lingq.com to the reading resources. It is really super helpful and they have tons of Chinese content on there.

[LiO163]

Bing dictionary and Reverso (still beta version for Chinese) are useful dictionaries but they also give example sentences, really useful to giving context to a new word

 

https://cn.bing.com/dict/?mkt=zh-cn

 

https://context.reverso.net/translation/

[xinoxanu]

Warning: not an ad, I just like the app well enough to give free advertising.

 

I think we should consider adding Skritter back to the list. I dropped it a year ago because I got fed up with flashcards as a whole and I was tired of paying for a beta that wasn't going anywhere... but they have managed to finally launch a compelling product that works as intended and no longer seems to have bugs at all (and they implemented some of the feedback I gave them last year, which is always nice!). It's still pricey though, about 15$ a month (or 9,99$ a month if you get the 6 month package; even less if you go longer), but it was already worth it before the beta and now it's great (and if you are also studying Japanese then it's an amazing 2x1 - just get it).

 

I tried the alternatives and also did my best with Pleco, an app of which I am a paid user and love with all my might, but none come close to Skritter because, simply put, it's the best and most polished SRS system out there, in the same way that an iPhone is still the best smartphone: it simply works out of the box, no tweaking necessary. 

 

PS: Despite the free praising I'll shamelessly accept a discount because, geez, 15$ a month are steep when you consider how 2020 is all about paying subscriptions for indoor entertainment! ?

 

[艾墨本]

@xinoxanu What about it is new in this update that differentiates it with the buggy-ness of previous versions? I also took it off because it always seemed so bulky to me while the simplicity of other apps made it easier to just jump in and study.

[xinoxanu]

Some of the differences between the old and new client: https://docs.skritter.com/article/241-old-client-vs-new-client-differences

 

Aside from UI improvements that have finally brought the app from 2009 to 2020, for me this is what's more relevant on a day to day basis:

• Time stats and flashcard count are finally being tracked properly without me having to do a workaround. It used to be the case that on a given study session only the few first minutes would be recorded/tracked while the rest of the session was not. This was super frustrating because not only I'd spend an hour reviewing flashcards and the stats only showed 10min, but all the flashcards from then on that I had reviewed would re-appear again on the next session as if I had never studied them at all. My workaround was to exit the session after every 10min and manually hit synchronize, which was an utter pita.
• No missing sounds anymore. Only HSK and the most common words actually had sound on the previous version, so if I added unconventional words I'd had to imagine the pronunciation in my head. This is or course not an issue once you speak Chinese, but my gripe was with the fact that reviewing cards just by hearing the sound of the word and without visual aid was useless half of the time.
• The test and review mode. At the beginning I hated the test mode (you can read about it in the link above) in the same way I hate the new Facebook redesign, but now that I am also a beginner of Japanese I actually find having both a test and review mode are great for my disposition to study the language. You can always bypass the test mode anyway and more or less keep studying in the same way the old app allowed you to.
• The SRS seems to have improved even mote and I actually feel I am retaining stuff better now without having to study for longer sessions. Might not be true though.
• They got rid of the time counter that indicated how long you have been studying in the current session. For me this is a huge one, because glancing at the time I had been studying in a given session was akin to looking at the classroom clock back in my student days. You know, Einstein was right about relativity after all.
• Stability. Haven had a single crash in over a month of using the app.
• The cute UI improvements that actually seem to have Human psychology on mind.

[艾墨本]

  

On 10/2/2020 at 3:35 PM, xinoxanu said:

Aside from UI improvements that have finally brought the app from 2009 to 2020, for me this is what's more relevant on a day to day basis:

Thanks for the detailed write-up. I've put Skritter back on, though I have to admit it still doesn't merit the ridiculous $170/year fee. It's just absurd to me.

Well at it I also changed my recommended app from Anki to Pleco, mostly due to ease of use which I think is the most important at the early stages. I also like that Pleco doesn't put it all behind a subscription.

 

On another note, has anyone used inkstone recently? I'm in China and have just discovered it is not available in this region. Does it still stand the test of time? Are there any alternatives that teach writing characters correctly. I like that Pleco/Anki have ways to practice writing the characters but neither encourage stroke order and placement as well as Inkstone did (at least in my memory).

[xinoxanu]

2 minutes ago, 艾墨本 said:

On another note, has anyone used inkstone recently? I'm in China and have just discovered it is not available in this region.

 

The developer dropped the project and iOS licenses expired worldwide, so it's not available for Apple devices anymore. See: https://github.com/skishore/inkstone/issues

 

You can still use it on Android though. I tried shortly before jumping back to Skritter but it was the same thing as a year ago, so for me it was a no-go.

[Luxi]

3 minutes ago, 艾墨本 said:

Are there any alternatives that teach writing characters correctly.

 

Tofu Learn for sure, superbly efficient and flexible. Free for most, though a ridiculously small monthly contribution would go a long way to keep this app going. It's accessible through iOS and Android apps as well as on web browsers in a desktop through this website:

TOFU Learn: Learn vocabulary the easy way (tofulearn.com)

One can sign on directly with email, or via Google or Facebook, or now through one's Apple ID. It also teaches a multitude of other languages, but none as good as Chinese.

 

Absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be available in China.