Australia to China visa

[Chloee]

Hi, 

Me and my boyfriend are wanting to move to China permanently, but we're not sure what the best approach is.

 

We both work online (not for a Chinese company - but a UK/US company) and we would like to keep our jobs and be able to live in China permanently.

What is the best way to go about this? We make ~$1000 USD(each) per week, so money isn't issue in terms of visa, moving and other expenses we may need to make this happen.

We have watched a lot of youtube videos, googled a lot, but still unable to find an answer.

 

I'm from Australia - He is from the UK - We are currently long distance (if that helps anything.)

I know we're not eligible for a work visa as we don't work for a Chinese company and we're not teachers, are we still able to get some type of work visa? Are we able to apply for a tourist visa every 6 months and still be able to remain in China? I'm just looking for someones personal opinion on what the best approach for us is so we are able to permanently stay in China, we are not fussed about doing a visa run every 3/6/12 months etc.. We have heard if we rent a place we're able to stay in China until our "lease" is up? Is this true?

 

Thanks for all the help in advanced.

[ChTTay]

Well, living on a tourist visa and renewing it every so often isn't really "permanent". However, there are a few forum members who seem to live in China this way. It seems like they split their time between China and their home country though so perhaps aren't perpetually re-applying.

 

One problem is that, even if you might not be that bothered by doing visa runs, eventually China will probably question what you are doing. Especially if you're living in one of the larger cities.

 

The rent thing sounds highly unlikely. If they were going to kick you out, they might just give you a week or a few days to get your affairs in order before doing so.

 

If you're looking to move to China, I assume you have an interest in China and perhaps learning Chinese. If so, the easiest way would just be to sign up for a Chinese course that provides an X visa. You could sign up with a University course and classes would likely just be in the morning Mon to Fri and with quite long holidays. As long as you're on the course, you'll keep the residence permit / x-visa.

 

Another option would be find some low hour job that will give you a Z work visa. It's likely you can find a University job for 6-10 hours a week.

[Chloee]

Thanks for the reply,

I don't have a bachelors degree so I'm not able to work in a university am I? Yes, we both are intensively learning Mandarin, taking online lessons 4 times a week.

 

I have seen a lot about the college/uni courses, am I able to sign up to a college and not show up and still keep my visa?

How long can I do this? Apply year after year to the same course.

 

Do apply for a work visa, do I need to be working for a school/uni? I know companies who do the same thing as me online that live in China and could "hire me."

[Demonic_Duck]

You'd want to check if this affects the tax situation in any way, but assuming everything was above board with that, I'd be surprised if getting tourist or study visas was an issue with disclosure of your situation and reason for being there... after all, you'd basically be injecting your hard-earned foreign wages into the Chinese economy. The only objection you might face would be if they suspected you of working illegally within China.

 

For that reason, I agree with ChTTay that you might want to go for the X visa rather than the L. As for whether you can not show up, I think that depends largely on how strictly the university in question monitors attendance. In theory, having unauthorized absences of above a certain threshold could void your visa; however, many universities are lax about checking.

 

The lease thing is not true. Sounds like complete misinformation, I'd be surprised if this has ever been the case in any city in China.

[ChTTay]

As DD says, usually Universities have minimum attendance percentages and if you fall below that then you should, in theory, be kicked off the course. If you're off the course, your x-visa/residence permit would also be cancelled.

 

One question though, why would you pay for a language course and then plan to not attend? Especially if you're already putting effort in at home.

 

Not sure about how lax or not Universities are in checking. When I was at Tsinghua they wouldn't let you graduate if you didn't meet the attendance requirement.

 

Actually, if you don't have a bachelors degree it will be very, very difficult to get any legitimate teaching job in China. This includes Universities and private schools alike. By legitimate, I mean schools that can and will give you a working visa. You would be able to find work 'on the side' but it can be risky. If you got caught you'd be fined and sent home in all likelihood.

 

I'd say the study thing is the way to go if you're serious about moving here.

[onebir]

Basically China doesn't have a visa designed for what you're doing. Aside from considerations above, the working hours for an X visa job might disrupt your existing activities.

 

Study might also, but some uni and private language schools seem to be able to arrange X visa for Chinese courses with minimal hours (eg 10/week at several Kunming Unis). Check out this forum for hints on the unis, and here for the private Kunming schools:

 

http://www.gokunming.com/en/forums/board/4/study

 

Plus:

http://www.gokunming.com/en/listings/city/kunming/education/

[ChTTay]

" Aside from considerations above, the working hours for an X visa job might disrupt your existing activities."

Assume you mean Z visa job?

[Demonic_Duck]

No point even trying to go the Z visa route unless you plan to work for a China-based employer. Would be a lot of trouble for no purpose. What you're proposing would be perfectly legal on an L visa, just unusual (hence why it might raise eyebrows).

[889]

"What you're proposing would be perfectly legal on an L visa . . . "

 

Generally, you can't engage in remunerative activities on a tourist visa. They may be working online via a website outside China, but they'll be pushing those keys to generate income inside China. Perhaps an M visa would allow this to some extent, I'm not sure.

[Demonic_Duck]

Generally, you can't engage in remunerative activities on a tourist visa.

For real? I can't even begin to work out the rationale behind that O_o

 

Business visas certainly allow for remunerative activities.

[Chloee]

I might try and go for a business visa and see how that works out, I found a company who will write a business invitation up and does visa runs for you, so hopefully I can work something out there.

If not, we have work connections with people who own a company in China that could write us a business invitation. 

I'm not someone who drinks or does drugs, I'm not a very social person, so I don't think I'll bring much attention to myself, myself and my boyfriend just want to continue working online (which takes up 40-50 hours of our week) while living in China and soaking up the culture and atmosphere. We don't want to do anything extreme like buy a house or live somewhere extra fancy, an apartment in Shenzhen is where we would like to live.

 

Sorry to ramble on, I just find it so unfortunate that it's so hard to get a visa to stay in China for long periods of time, I can see myself living there my entire life. 

[vellocet]

The Chinese authorities are mostly concerned that you are paying your tax on income earned in China.  That's about it as far as visa status goes.

 

As far as relocating permanently to China?  China doesn't really do permanent immigration.  Even people who marry a Chinese only get a 'visiting family' visa, that will not be renewed upon divorce or death of spouse.  There is a green card program but it is a joke.  A friend of mine applied for one here, only to be told that nobody in the office knew how to process his application so he couldn't get one.  In Shanghai I've heard of people getting it, it involves working legally in China for 3, 5, or 7 years (depending on jurisdiction) and proving that you paid taxes on your income, as well as having an investigation of your neighbors and colleagues.  You have a much better chance if you work in a field that China desperately needs as a high-ranking foreign expert.  A Nobel prize in your field would guarantee approval.  Lacking a bachelor's means you will have to get it through your husband.  I remember watching a CCTV-9 show about the green card and the government man said it wasn't for ordinary foreigners but investors and the like.  Invest $500,000 or more in China and it will be much easier to get one.  Or, contribute an outstanding achievement to China, like founding a hospital or saving Xi Jinping's child from drowning or something.  Honestly I think most green cards are issued to overseas Chinese with citizenship in other countries, who want to come back 'home' to China.

 

More info http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/23019-chinese-green-card/

 

http://www.china.org.cn/english/LivinginChina/185212.htm

 

A better question might be why someone who hasn't lived in China before wants to permanently relocate, but I suppose that wasn't asked.  

[Chloee]

I'm unsure how to quote posts on this forum, I apologize.

 

I don't mind constantly getting my visa renewed every 6 to 12 months as long as I can stay in China, I'm not looking for some kind of quick solution like a green card.

If I need to pay some kind of tax to the Chinese Government every 6-12 months, I'm happy to do that on any kind of visa as well. As I said, money isn't a real issue as long as I'm able to live there happily with no issues.

 

To answer your question, I've always loved both China and Japan culture, I'd love to be apart of it, I'd love to be able to walk down the street and get food from a stall, I love all the little holidays they have, I love the traditions they have, I love how family orientated they are, I love the thought of being able to ride my bike everywhere and have access to everything because it's walking/riding distance.

[889]

"The Chinese authorities are mostly concerned that you are paying your tax on income earned in China.  That's about it as far as visa status goes."

 

Historically that may be true, but in the past couple of years there's been more enforcement activity towards foreigners working without proper visa status.

 

In any event, if the OP will be working in Shenzhen -- where there aren't many bikes around, by the way -- then she'll find it easy enough to reset her period of permitted stay by just heading across the border to Hong Kong and back.

 

I have to add that the tone of the OP's posts suggests a somewhat rosy view of Mainland China. I'd think planning on a six-month trial, say, would be more realistic.

[ChTTay]

One other thing, you mentioned you work online. Would be extremely wise to check whatever site or software you use works well enough in China for you to continue to do your job properly.

For instance, even something like Skype I find to be a disaster here most of the time. My internet is really fast when downloading or uploading, I can stream TV easily, websites load quickly as long as they're Chinese or not hosted somewhere China doesn't like. If I use wechat to video call my family it works great. Skype or FaceTime are patchy.

[889]

Yes, and is the OP aware of the restrictions on reaching many sites, those related to Google in particular? Bing is available, but it's really no substitute for Google. VPNs sometimes work, I hear, though mine almost never does. And as a working assumption, the OP should take it that the situation will get worse, not better.

[Chloee]

My boyfriend has internet sorted, we have PCs set up at his families house that we can connect through at anytime so we can access what we need to.

 

If we have a business visa, and we pay tax, from what I've worked out we should be theoretically okay, we get paid via Paypal and we can set up Chinese bank accounts (or something similar) and transfer our funds into there and pay tax through those means. Anything that allows us to stay in China for long periods at a time or doesn't require us to go back home for any reason.

[Demonic_Duck]

Chinese bank accounts can be linked to PayPal but it needs to be a separate PayPal account to the one you're using with any foreign accounts.

Having access to an Internet-connected PC alone does not give you access to many of the most commonly used foreign sites (Google, Facebook, YouTube, Gmail, Twitter, and many others are blocked). You need to set up something to circumvent the blocks, usually a paid VPN.

As for the visa stuff, I think I've proven myself to have no idea what I'm talking about in that respect, so please take anything I said earlier about visas with a pinch of salt.

[Shelley]

Have you thought about Taiwan? Might be easier all round.

 

See here https://taiwanease.com/article/21/Getting_your_Taiwan_APRC_Alien_Permanent_Resident_Certificate

[ChTTay]

I was under the impression a business visa (not a Z) was for short term visits? I still think you'll find the student visa the most hassle free way.

To be honest, I cannot see why just being here and paying tax would make them give you or prolong a visa

As above, I'd find some way to actually try out what you want to do from within China (work wise) before committing.

Well, hope you come back and tell us what actually happened :-) good luck