Leap from tone recognition in artificial speech to that in more natural speech

[BearXiong]

I'm at a point where I can for the most part easily recognise single and double-tones in artificial speech, i.e. slowed down with tones emphasised compared with natural speech. However I make mistakes when trying to recognise tones in faster, more natural speech. For example, in chinesepod intermediate dialogues, I still make mistakes recognising tones. However, in the explanations of the dialogues when words are said clearly by one of the hosts I can easily recognise the tones.

I try to do transcription exercises a few times a week where I use audacity to slow down parts of the dialogues where I'm not sure of what's said, concentrating on tones. However, I'm not sure if this is the most effective method for improving recognition of tones in natural speech. I would appreciate any advice/exercises I can do that people have found helpful. If any of you more experienced learners would like to share their experience I'd also appreciate that, e.g. is this something that you found naturally develops over time just by listening, should I worry about it?

Thanks!

[Shelley]

intermediate dialogues

 

I think this might be part of the problem, start with beginner level and work up.

 

Yes it is also a matter of the more you listen to the better you should get.

 

I listen to as much as I can whenever I can and even if I don't understand all of it, it helps to "tune your ear" .

 

Don't worry too much at the very beginning but you need to make sure you do learn your tones, just keep at it, it will get better.

[Demonic_Duck]

I disagree. Stick with dialogues at your actual level of comprehension. Beginner-level dialogues are liable to be somewhat "artificial" anyway, so they won't give you much practice for discerning tones in a real-world setting.

 

Bear in mind that, in natural speech, tones are rarely spoken with their full tonal value - only emphasized words tend to carry the full tonal value, and even then that varies based on intonation. I'd suggest continuing to do what you're doing with slowing down the speech, but instead of trying to discern the tones first time around, do it with the aid of the transcript so you know what you're supposed to be hearing. Pay attention to how the actual sounds differ from your expectations. For example, pay attention to how a fourth-tone word sounds when it's the unstressed word that comes before a stressed syllable, or how a 1-4 combo sounds when it's moderately stressed and comes before a neutral tone. Then you can begin to adjust your expectations of what you'll hear accordingly. 

[Shelley]

The OP didn't state their level, apart from mentioning intermediate level chinesepod, I just meant the OP should listen to material at their appropriate level, which might not have been intermediate.

[BearXiong]

I can see why one might think I'm a beginner, since mastering single and double-tones recognition is something one ideally does early on. However, tones are not something that came easy for me, rather they're something I've slowly worked on and improved over a long time and I imagine will continue to do so for a long time to come. I've actually been studying Mandarin for a year and a half, have a vocab of 1600-1700 words (according to my Anki deck), and have listened to hundreds of chinesepod intermediate dialogues (among other things).   

Demonic_Duck, so you think I should spend less time repeating the dialogue trying to figure out the tones, and rather more time repeating the dialogue using the transcript to associate the actual tones with the sounds?

It's an interesting point you make about about stressed and unstressed words/syllables and how they (and they're relative positions in a sentence) affect the intonation. I'll try to pay more attention to it!

 

[Yadang]

 

Bear in mind that, in natural speech, tones are rarely spoken with their full tonal value - only emphasized words tend to carry the full tonal value, and even then that varies based on intonation. 

 

Very true - always good to keep in mind.

 

 

I'd suggest continuing to do what you're doing with slowing down the speech, but instead of trying to discern the tones first time around, do it with the aid of the transcript so you know what you're supposed to be hearing. Pay attention to how the actual sounds differ from your expectations.

 

I think this is good advice - although I never did it. But a variation on the same theme, which I did do, is before trying to recognize the tones of the words you don't know, listen very carefully for the tones of the words you do know (so the difference with Demonic_Duck's strategy is that instead of using a transcript, just listen for the words that you already know) . This way, as Demonic_Duck said, you will know what to expect already, and you can listen to how the sounds differ from your expectations. Once you start to get used to hearing (and saying) the tones of words you do know in different contexts (with different intonation mixed in), you'll be at a much better place to listen for the tones of words that you don't know.

[Flickserve]

I do the 'tune the ear' technique by having the radio on in the car. I flit in and out of listening to mandarin. It's convenient and helps me tune my ear. There are a variety of accents. There is not much comprehension because my vocabulary is still fairly limited (75% of HSK 3 syllabus plus other words not in than group).

I don't try and copy tones out in a speech by hand. I did try and slow some speech down to listen to but it is not something I prefer. What I prefer is native speed sentence, followed by a repeat at slower speed and then repeating it again.

My view is rather than listening for the tone, listen for the word which may be two or three characters and the rhythm in the sentence.

I also do the transcript technique. In fact, that is very easy because there is so much subtitled Chinese material out there. Then I might replay it and not look at the subtitles. In fact, just last night, I was watching YouTube and the China version of The Voice. The speak pretty fast but I just go through reading the subtitles and listening. I try to work out if I caught a word that was being said by knowledge of the subtitles. If unsure, I go back and review listen again. If it is really uncomprehensible, you have to get a native speaker to interpret for you and explain why the word sounds nothing like what you have heard before.

Because I learn for fun at my own pace it has taken me a while to build up. However, after coming back from UK on holiday (English immersion), I have noticed my ability to discern Chinese words seems to have improved. A bit strange to say the least. And with that, I seem to be on a bit of a roll on speaking Mandarin being a bit better at picking up my own tonal mistakes. Maybe that's what a holiday does for you.