Integrated Chinese Vs DeFrancis

[Shelley]

I have recently made the change from simplified to traditional.

 

I have DeFrancis Beginning Chinese, Beginning Chinese Reader Part 1, and Character text for Beginning Chinese.

 

I also found on my shelf the Integrated Chinese series Text Book, Workbook and Character workbook with the audio. I had forgotten about these I had bought some years ago because they are the traditional version.

 

I have also discovered the additional resources offered on the Integrated Chinese website.

 

I was finding DeFrancis hard going because the characters are in a separate book. I can't decide how to use the books, just use the character book or follow the text in the Beginning Chinese, then do the corresponding lesson in the Character book. I thought the Reader could be used as extra reading practice.

 

I have looked through the Integrated books and am finding them a lot more modern and organised well. I like the character practice book because I am learning to write. The work book looks like a good companion to the text book. I have yet to listen all the way through the audio.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions how to use DeFrancis more efficiently or should I drop DeFrancis as my core textbook and plump for Integrated.

 

[Lu]

I learned Chinese initially from DeFrancis, but it certainly is not the most modern textbook out there. We learned pinyin and characters separately at first. Simple beginner words (nǐ hǎo, xuéshēng, lǎoshī etc) are not the same as simple beginner characters (火, 山, 言, 人 etc), so it made sense I think. After a while the pinyin knowledge and character knowledge started to overlap. I had one classmate who had earlier learned Japanese and penciled in all the characters next to the pinyin word lists, since it helped her learn.

 

For what it's worth, I think both are good beginner's methods, so you can pick either and just stick with it.

[Shelley]

I think that's why I am having difficulties, learning characters and pinyin separately is not what I want to do.

 

I am for various reasons beginning to lean towards Integrated Chinese, using the DeFrancis reader as an extra.

[guest1234]

Hi Shelley

 

Have you finished the NPCR now then? I know they have traditional editions.

[Shelley]

No I haven't finish NPCR. Its just that I have DeFrancis and Integrated Chinese in traditional, to save money i was going to try these textbooks.

 

I would like to continue with NPCR in traditional, if my trial with traditional goes well, I may just have to buy NPCR in traditional.

 

In fact I will explore this option because I really like NPCR, to heck with the expense.

 

Thanks @bagua for pushing me in that direction.

[Flickserve]

Shelley,

I remember you love writing characters out. No point in buying another NCPR. Just type the simplified characters from one chapter on computer and use a computer program to convert it into traditional. Print the list of the traditional characters next to the simplified characters on a A4 sheet. Then practice writing the characters out as you go along in NCPR up to the end of the first volume. Then read Integrated Chinese and DeFrancis. See what you know. From a cursory glance, IC to me looks a little more intimidating and you would probably get more mileage with DeFrancis. Next, walk into your local Chinese supermarket and takeaway. I suspect most are still run by Chinese who have originated from HK with products sources from HK. Then look at the signs and labels on the food and hunt for words you might recognise.

[guest1234]

Hi Shelley

 

Have PM'd you.

[Shelley]

@Flickserve its even easier than that - there is a list at the back of the textbook of the characters with traditional as well as simplified. I have 1 lesson left in book 1 and then I hope to move over to book 2 traditional version.

 

Changing Pleco headword to traditional changes all my flashcards too so I will just go through them again in traditional.

 

My Tuttle paper flashcards are in both so that's not a problem.

 

I guess I will sort of be learning both together as its very difficult to exclude simplified from my study material, and indeed from the world

[Flickserve]

I don't think anything is easier than DeFrancis Beginning Chinese reader. ;-)

[Shelley]

I will use the DeFrancis Reader but I don't want to start again with 你好, and I would be loath to plunge into the middle of a new textbook for fear of missing something out.

 

I have decided to continue with NPCR 2 in traditional.

[character]

While the DeFrancis textbooks are dated, there is still a lot of value in all the example sentences in them.  I think you can continue to use the DeFrancis textbooks, but as readers.  As you complete the chapters in the DeFrancis textbooks, you can then read the appropriate chapters in the actual DeFrancis readers.

 

So, work through chapter in NPCR, read chapter(s) in DeFrancis textbook, periodically read chapters in DeFrancis reader.

[Shelley]

@character That sounds like a plan. I was thinking of something along those lines. As a reader it will be excellent practice.

[Flickserve]

I will use the DeFrancis Reader but I don't want to start again with 你好, and I would be loath to plunge into the middle of a new textbook for fear of missing something out.

I have decided to continue with NPCR 2 in traditional.

what's so difficult about reading the first few chapters to work out what level you are at?

[Shelley]

Don't get me wrong, I am not abandoning DeFrancis, I am just keeping NPCR as my core textbook, I will use the DeFrancis Character text and the Beginning Chinese Readers as extra reading.

 

I try and have as much variety as I can but I like to have one textbook series to follow, to complete all the exercise, write out all the characters and listen to the audio and generally have a complete course.

 

So, work through chapter in NPCR, read chapter(s) in DeFrancis textbook, periodically read chapters in DeFrancis reader

 

This is very good advice from character and is what I plan to do.

 

 

I like NPCR and as there is a traditional version I see no reason to change.

[Mati1]

Hi Shelley!

 

It's just now that I found this topic (via Google while looking for some other DeFrancis related information haha).

It seems that we are in a similar situation, having some elementary knowledge of Chinese and simplified characters and now also starting with traditional ones.

I cannot comment on IC vs NPCR vs DeFrancis, because I never used a beginner textbook series until recently deciding to give DeFrancis a try.

When I started with Chinese, though not having a textbook, I only used Pinyin to learn the pronounciation of words, never for reading. The time one spends using a text in Pinyin could be used to read ones first sentences written with real characters.

 

(BC Character Text and BCR are a bit below my level, wich is no wonder, given that they are real beginner books. I am using them to fill the holes in my Chinese foundation and of course for the traditional characters. What's more, before getting DeFrancis I always felt a lack of enough reading material at the right level available at my fingertips; that is sub-intermediate, assuming that intermediate starts somewhere at 1000 - 2000 characters. Once at intermediate level, there should be enough reading material to branch out to. Btw. I had no plans to learn traditional, but figured it would be easy enough when using BCR, ICR and ACR as extensive readers.)

 

Sorry for all the text.

I want to point out something that would also be appropriate in your characters thread.

(BCR 1 contains the table of contents for both parts.)

At the end of BCR 2 there is a page that lists all traditional characters with their simplified versions (that is, only those which have changed). When I realized that, I stopped writing my own spreadsheet . Seeing that there is such a listing in NPCR makes this less useful to you.

This page is followed by two pages of characters with multiple writings.

I believe these three pages are gems and hope that it will be the same in ICR and ACR.

[character]

 

What's more, before getting DeFrancis I always felt a lack of enough reading material at the right level available at my fingertips; that is sub-intermediate, assuming that intermediate starts somewhere at 1000 - 2000 characters.

For sub-intermediate, 0-500 characters is now well covered.  There are some resources for 600-750 characters, but not nearly as many.  http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/44336-graded-readers-by-the-numbers-characterswords-page-count/ For folks OK with Traditional, it does look like DeFrancis provides the smoothest and cheapest path from 0-1200 characters.

[Shelley]

Quick update for anyone who is interested

 

I am going to use the traditional version of NPCR but I am also going through DeFrancis mainly for the characters until I reach a lesson with new grammar etc that I haven't learnt yet and then study the lessons in more depth.

 

I figure this is the best way for me to make sure I learn the traditional version of characters I already know.

 

I am enjoying it, it has opened up a whole new aspect to characters that I felt was missing but didn't realise till I started learning traditional.