Old Kowloon documentary

[Chris_a_1986]

I see, I was unsure but I too noticed the guy speaking says "I" a lot, even though during the video we hear Reber having conversations with people and the voice doesn't sound the same as the narrators. I viewed a translated version of the page that the video is on and the guy speaking is actually someone else, I suppose he's just role playing. I just needed to clear that up since when I'm translating further dialogue I have a better chance of getting it correct. Thanks.

[skylee]

雷伯 = uncle 雷 (Lui in Cantonese/Lei in Putonghua)

[Chris_a_1986]

You mean everyone calls him uncle? Chinese must be very complicated as there's no way I'd have found that out, even searching on google I cannot find it. I searched for 'say uncle in Chinese' and not one result reveals 雷伯 as Uncle.

I suppose this is why language is a very complex subject.

[somethingfunny]

伯 = Uncle

 

So, 雷伯 = Uncle 雷 (or "Uncle Lei")

 

So, yes, everyone calls him "Uncle Lei".  Importantly, he doesn't refer to himself like this, rather he says "Here, everyone calls me Uncle Lei".

 

Also, it's not really calling him "Uncle" in the sense that you or I might be used to, rather a term of address for an elder male.  People - often those that I have just met - would have their children call me "Somethingfunny 叔叔".

[Chris_a_1986]

Right, that makes perfect sense, some close friends of the family would have their children call my Mum 'auntie', even though there no blood relation between us, must be a similar thing.

I'll post my next section and so far this part is where I start to become a little bit stuck. It goes kind of ok until I get to the part about people being murdered. I've put down roughly what I can make of it but I'm totally baffled and I'll explain why at the bottom...

卖狗肉的三六档还在
The dog meat shop is still around.

而偶尔也有一些道友 (瘾君子) 躲在横巷或公厕里 "追龙"
There's usually a fellow (addict) hiding down a side-alley or public toilet "chasing the dragon"

但是卖白粉的就少很多了
There's much less heroin-selling

至于赌档和妓寨
As for gambling dens and brothels

就不光城寨里有
they don't only exist in the walled city

外面也有
they also exist outside.

虽然城寨"三不管"
Although the walled city is "unregulated"

但也并不像外人想象中那么可怕
It's not the terrible place that outsiders imagined

 进来会被人又打又杀
(where) people were attacked and killed when they entered (here).

外面的人进来
(If) Outsiders come in 

(没错,) 有的人会大眼瞪小眼
(I'll say,) they get stared at by some people (local residents)
不过是 没恶意的
It is just not in a malicious way
但是 去到哪里都一样了
However, it's the same no matter where you go

路过"三不管"的地方 黑漆漆的横街窄巷
When passing through the dark side streets of this "unregulated" place

就别乱闯了
Do not loiter around

自己都几十岁了
I'm getting old myself
 

但是 去到哪里都一样了
除了帮人理发之外
As well as hairdressing, I help out people

我本来不打算这么辛苦去帮人倒垃圾的
I originally hadn't planned on helping people with trash

后来不知道为什么总有人把垃圾
I don't understand why people are trashing the place

倒在我档口前面
It falls down and its all piling up

所以逼着我自告奋勇
So I was forced into helping

上门帮附近的居民倒垃圾
by vising homes of nearby residents to collect trash.

这里的街巷除了又黑又窄之外
Here, the streets are pitch black and narrow

还因为居民随处倒垃圾
Because or the residents' garbage everywhere

无形中把老鼠养得又肥又大
the rats appear to have grown very big and fat

有时路过还有水滴下来
Sometimes there are drops of water passing down

也不知道是不是污水
I don't know if it's sewage or not

城寨的坑渠都是明渠
The walled city has open canals

很多人就顺手在坑渠里倒屎倒尿
People simply dispose of their urine and faeces in the canal

有的父母还让小孩随地解决
Some parents let their children go anywhere they decide to

喂, 收了收了
Hello, here to collect, here to collect

- 阿伯 ! 垃圾左里面
- Uncle, the trash is left in there
- 好
- Excellent

- 哎呒, 吃饭啦? 沿
- Hey, having a meal? Carry on
- 是啊, 吃饭, 吃了t沒?
- Yeah, having a meal, have you not eaten?


- 一起吃吧 ?
- Eating with us?
- 多谢了
- I'm ok thanks

那就慢慢走, 看好楼梯
It's a sluggish walk up, you must mind the stairs here

我就好了, 难为你们还要挑水
I'm fine, but it must make life hard carrying up water

是啊, 阿伯, 我们挑水挑了十几年
Yea, uncle, we've been carrying water up here for 10 years now

- 好了, 就这样, 我走了, 再见
- Right, anyway, I'm off, see you soon
- 慢走
- Take care

好, 慢走
Yeah, take care

城寨楼价虽然便宜
Walled city property is cheap

但是地方真的小
But the place is really small

这不就是旧楼
Old and worn out.

只有小小的地方, 连半个窗户都没有
It's just a very small room, there aren't even any Windows

怎么透气啊 ?
How does air get inside?

 

真的难为他们一家七口
住在这里这么久了
It makes life difficult for the family of 7, they've lived like this a long time

整天都听别人说, 最近十几二十年来
All day long I hear people talk, for more than 20 years

香港工业发达了
That Hong Kong's industry is flourishing

我当初也不懂什么叫工业发达
I originally didn't understand what this industrial development was

自从眼见城寨的工厂越开越多, 我才知道为什么
I see more and more factories opening in the walled city, And I know the reason why this is

很多厂家都认为
Most factory owners know that

城寨好过外面很多地区
The walled city is much better than the outside

那当然了
Of course

在这里开工厂, 又不用去政府领拍照
To open a factory here, you don't the the government's approval

楼价又便宜 , 人工又低
The price of the building is cheap, the workers pay is low

难怪每条街都有一些
It's no wonder they're on every street.

五金厂, 塑胶厂, 织布厂什么的
Metal factories, plastic factories, weaving factories and what not.

虽然说, 它们对香港工业有帮助
Although to say, they're helpful to Hong Kong's industry

但是那些废气和噪音就很难顶了
It's hard to top all the industrial waste and noise

难怪外面的人经过都说城寨又吵又臭
No wonder people from outside say the walled city is noisy and smells bad

这些小型工厂多数都是一家人自己做
These small-scale factories are mostly family-run

就算请伙计
Even if someone asks to be a shop assistant

八成以上都是请住在城寨里的人
Its most likely a request by someone already living in the walled city

人工便宜嘛
The workers are conveniently cheap

不过现在住在城寨的年轻人
Nowadays young people live in the walled city

很多人宁愿去外面的工厂做
Many people would rather go to work in a factory on the outside

所以这里的工厂多数都是清年纪大的人
As a result, the majority of factory workers are elder people

或者青少年
and possibly young teenagers

在这些工厂当中
Among these factories

还有很多是做食品的
furthermore, very often foodstuffs are produced.

因为不想受什么卫生条例管制嘛
Because there's no control on hygiene or conditions to meet

好像做砵仔糕这样
This woman can make her cakes this way.

相信很多外面的人都没见过
I'm convinced many people do not see the outside of this place

做梦都想不到
I never would have imagined

这里的旧楼这么金贵
these outdated buildings would be so valuable.

这些旧楼
These worn out buildings.

都有人说是危楼了
Some people even say these buildings are about to collapse

听说建筑商想利用旧楼的地皮
Rumour is the construction business want to make use of the section of land the old buildings are on

改建新楼
To rebuild with modern housing

如果旧楼业主肯的话
In the event that the old buildings owners are willing to discuss

除了在拆楼起屋的时候有免楼住之外
tearing down the buildings

超好的新楼还可以给他们一两层
to improve the place with new buildings.

好, 趁今天有空, 去看看嫂子
Well, I have free time today so I have a chance to go see my sister-in- law

看她的新楼是怎样的
and see what her new place is like.

这么多楼梯, 那个才是呢 ?
So many staircases, which is it?

建筑商为了省地方
The building constructors have economised the space

就连楼梯都省了
staircases are connected to save space.

好多屋还要用隔壁的楼梯
There's quite a lot of houses next door to staircases

旧楼古楼当然没电梯了
The worn out buildings undoubtably have no elevators

不过十几层高的新楼也一样没电梯
Even the ones taller than 10 stories have no elevators.

这么高, 我们这些老人家上上下下
It's too high, us elderly must climb from the top to the bottom, up and down

很辛苦的
It's exhausting.

雷伯, 今天这么有空来看我啊?
Uncle Lei, you have the time to come and see me today?

你买了新楼
You bought a new place

我想来看看你的新楼
I wanted to have a quick look at the new place

住新楼还要提水啊?
In the new building you carry down your water?

别说这么多了, 先进来坐吧
Don't mention it, come inside take a seat

好
Fine

请坐, 雷伯
Please sit down, uncle Lei

这么好来看我
I like the look of it

我就是想看看你的新楼怎样
I wanted to properly have a look at the inside of the new building

新楼不就这样了, 很狭窄的
Not much of a new building, its quite narrow

豆腐块这么小
It's like small beancurd cubes (slang for small)

又没有电梯, 每个月初交三十几块水费
And yet there's no elevator, it's costs 30 a month for the water bill

那也好过人家的旧楼了
You have it easier than those in the old buildings

连窗戶都没有
which don't even have windows.

没用的, 好几个囡都很黑的
Useless, several are blacked out anyway

[skylee]

三六档 - 3+6=9. In Cantonese, the pronunciation of 9 is the same as that of "dog".

偶尔 = Occasionally, sometimes

但是卖白粉的就少很多了 = There is much less heroin-selling

至于赌档和妓寨 = As to gambling dens and brothels

就不光城寨里有 = They don't only exist in the walled city

外面也有 = They also exist outside (the walled city)

[Chris_a_1986]

Thanks, I actually translated a paragraph on that link you gave me and it said the same thing about the dog meat shop, I wasn't too sure how to put it into words, I guess I need more experience, I might even try learning Chinese myself after.

So did I translate the dog meat shop sentence wrong then?

[Flickserve]

I didn't know of a feature that does that, but you can also draw letters into google translate as well. Only problem, is no matter how accurately you draw a letter on the iPhone screen, the app rarely gets it right, even some simple letters won't be recognised, writing it out in paper then photographing it is proving to be quite effective. I think that sort of thing would be good on a tablet using a stylus pen.

!

Are we talking about the same thing?

Have a look at the link

https://sites.google.com/site/speedyhowto/write-chinese-iphone

[Chris_a_1986]

Yep, tried it, can't seem to work with it at all. I tried and I can't seem to use it with notepad properly.

I set my keyboard to Chinese and, I sketch a letter, it's supposed to appear on the bar st the bottom with the character it resembles but it's not working so gave up with it.

[Flickserve]

Oh weird. it works really well in my iPhone. I just write it into pleco for a translation of individual words.

Mind you, you are definitely getting good practice at handwriting.

[eslang]

 

By the way RTHK got back to me too, kind of assumed they wouldn't have the subs but at least they replied! Here look:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your enquiry of 7 September 2016 regarding an archive episode of our programme “Hong Kong Connection” (鏗鏘集：城寨”). Given that the said programme was produced and broadcast nearly 40 years ago, providing English subtitling captions or retrieving any text materials in English thereof pose technical and resources problems. Thank you for your kind understanding.

We thank you again for your support to RTHK programmes.

Yours faithfully,

Zoe Wong

For and on behalf of

Corporate Communications and Standards Unit

Radio Television Hong Kong

 

Perhaps RTHK may have the Cantonese/Chinese transcription for that video you are interested in? 

If RTHK can provide the Cantonese/Chinese transcription, then you do not have to transcribe it yourself.

 

Have a look at this RTHK short video clip (about 2 minutes) with "subtitles" below. 

 

1979 鏗鏘集-九龍城寨

Uploaded by willuskong

Date: 2008/03/10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5hk5oxj5uM

 

I have typed it out since the above video is pretty short.

1979 鏗鏘集-九龍城寨 (with some subtitles)

究竟城寨特殊的政治背景

對當地居民的生活有何影響?

香港原來的風貌 隨着城市急速發展

不斷消逝

見證記憶中的社區 舊巷

惟有靠昔日的影像

-----    九龍城寨 1979    -----

十年來

城寨建了多幢十多層高的大廈

建大廈時不用打樁

又不用政府批准

這些樓房很擁擠

站在街上看不到天空

即使家裏有窗

也可能被對面的樓房擋着 打不開

--李太太  --是的

我家裏又停電了

--真巧     --替我駁電吧

急着要熨衣服

-----    -----    -----    

因為歷史因素造成

那兒是「三不管」地帶

所以樓房胡亂蓋

甚至出現「握手樓」的情況

另一方面 法例不容的黃賭毒

也存在於九龍城寨

-----    九龍城寨 1979    -----

九龍城寨

一直被人認為是一個特殊地區

究竟為甚麼呢?

追溯城寨的歷史

它是宋代的邊防最前線

鴉片戰爭時

清政府还派派官兵到城牆里駐守

-----    -----    -----

城寨的文化是甚麼文化?

其實就是「三不管」的文化

因某一個歷史原因造成

也曾在某一個時空出現

九龍城寨在一九九三年清拆

不過 當年香港人

對於城寨的消失並不關心

留下來的紀錄也不多

反而有一群日本人 在清拆前夕

申請進城 花了整整一星期

描繪城寨的地圖

留下最後紀錄

 

 

As for the web-link that skylee had provided above in post #2, http://www.youyueke....cf93d0ffc5.html

I am not able to see/view/access the video on that web-page.

 

If you can re-upload that video version with Chinese subtitles to cloud drive or somewhere else,

maybe I can take a look at it later and let you know whether it is possible to extract the subtitles from that video.

 

 

 

以龙津道, 西城路

Longin road, west road,

东头村道和龙城路为界线

Tung tau tsuen road and Kowloon city road bounded

I'll leave it there for the minute, those last two sentences are surely incorrect, I know of Tung tau tsuen road, but the other 3 surrounding roads are carpenter road, junction road and Tung tsing road, those four roads are the borderline of the city, but Google has translated it as Kowloon city road, longin road and west road, unless I'm misinterpreting them completely.

 

Surrounding Main Roads are :

Tung Tau Tsuen Road  (Chinese: 東頭村道)

Tung Tsing road (Chinese: 東正道)

Carpenter road   (Chinese: 賈炳達道)

Junction road  (Chinese: 聯合道)

Inner Roads which formed the boundary line (界线)

Tung Tau Tsuen Road  (Chinese: 東頭村道)

Lung Shing Road  (Chinese: 龍城路)  < Main Road: 東正道 Tung Tsing Road>

Lung Chun Road  (Chinese: 龍津路) < Main Road: 賈炳達道 Carpenter Road>

Sai Shing Road  (Chinese: 西城路)  < Main Road: 聯合道 Junction Road>

 

Map taken from City of Darkness

 

Hope this helps.

[Chris_a_1986]

Hey, thanks a lot eslang. I never thought I asking them for the Chinese/Cantonese transcript, I emailed them just a second ago to see if they have.

 

That video clip you posted is actually a preview of the video itself, it's just showing parts from it. Maybe the reason why you can't see it is because you need to install Adobe Flash player, I don't think it's possible to extract the subs from Flash videos anyway. I think there's a way to extract the video I will try to do that.

 

But that map you posted does help, I just took a quick look and figured out West road is actually Sai Shing road. Thanks a lot for your help.

 

Does this link work for you?

 

http://v.qq.com/iframe/player.html?vid=y0163mfuyoq&auto=0

[eslang]

 

Does this link work for you?

 

http://v.qq.com/ifra...uyoq&auto=0

Thanks for putting up the video link.

 

Filename : 城寨旧事.mp4

Video size : 640 x352 pixels

Time length: 23' 43"

Chinese subtitles by: 奇遇电影字幕组 (cinematik)

 

There are two narrators 沈耀雄 and 張炳強 according to the end credits roll.

And from another video title - 鏗鏘集：城寨  （沈耀雄及張炳強旁白）

 

esrXP should be able to 'extract the hard-subs' for this video.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/44954-extracting-chinese-hardsubs-from-a-video/#comment-338117

 

I'll try to find time this weekend to convert the video file, extract the hard-subs, then OCR the image files, proofread and edit it. After that, I will upload the Chinese transcript file here next week.

 

 

卖狗肉的三六档还在

Dog meat is sold in this shop called 'three hundred and sixty nine'

Literal Translate:

卖  狗     肉    的    三六    档      还在

sell dog meat the "3+6=9"  shop still around

(Cantonese "number 9" sounds similar to "dog")

 

The shop which sells dog-meat is still around.

 

 

但 也并不像外人想象中那么可怕, 进来会被人又打又杀

But it's not the terrible place that outsiders imagined,

(where) people were attacked and killed when they entered (here).

 

外面的人进来   (没错,) 有的人会大眼瞪小眼

(If) Outsiders come in  (I'll say,) they get stared at by some people (local residents)

不过是 没恶意的

It is just not in a malicious way

但是 去到哪里都一样了

However, it's the same no matter where you go

Right this is how far I currently am, and I'm not satisfied with the translation in highlighted bold, I don't understand how one second he's saying it's not a terrible place, the straight after says that people get attacked and killed, then the part about staring, it doesn't add up to me I think I completely lost my way there.

 

 

I have combined some of the lines, so that it can be read as a single sentence instead.

 

A single sentence may be written into two or more separate lines because the characters per line are usually 'limited' due to the display screen-size (i.e. width-size) and the average time taken for viewers to read the subtitles within split seconds.

 

I hope this makes some sense.

[somethingfunny]

I'm still not clear what 三六档 actually means.  Is it some kind of slang for 'shop'?

 

This thread is getting a bit messy now and it's not really clear which bits have been translated and which bits haven't.  Is there some sort of public access platform we could be using where anyone interested in providing translations could see the whole transcript?

[Chris_a_1986]

Thanks you eslang, I really appreciate this.

So there are 2 narrators then? It makes sense I guess. I also figured when trying to translate that some sentence need to be combined to make sense of them, so thanks for clearing up a few things.

I don't know how much you will want or need to type up, will you do it from the start or from where I'm up to currently? If you feel better doing it from the start it may even turn out better, since subtitles aren't even written out very good apparently, skylee was saying there were mistakes, and I noticed you added in some characters in your translation above.

I've even got another section I've done, I was up late last night doing this one, it's nearly reached the half way mark of this short film now! I do wish it was longer though, there'll never be another walled city...

I'll post what I did yesterday in my post above
 

Edit: @ somethingfunny,I agree this is all over the place now, what I'll do is edit my post above with where I am so far...and change the text to bold so it stands out better. The parts in bold are what haven't been changed by anyone yet. I've updated the parts that have been properly translated by you and eslang, and the part that skylee did as well. I've also edited my opening post on the first page, it contains the whole script so far.

[Chris_a_1986]

Just got a reply from RTHK and it's another negative response, they don't seem to be willing to help out unfortunately. Here's what they're saying.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email.

As transcripts by themselves are copyrighted materials, a formal application is required for approval which might be subject to third-party rights holders if any. In general, we do not entertain requests in personal capacity except for compelling reasons or exceptionally strong justification. Given the year of production of the concerned programme, we are afraid that the chance of retrieving the materials under request seems practically remote. Thank you again for your understanding.

Kind regards,

Zoe Wong

For and on behalf of

Corporate Communications and Standards Unit

Radio Television Hong Kong

I kind of predicted this to be honest, I highly doubted they'd give out any material.

[eslang]

Just got a reply from RTHK and it's another negative response, they don't seem to be willing to help out unfortunately. Here's what they're saying.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email.

As transcripts by themselves are copyrighted materials, a formal application is required for approval which might be subject to third-party rights holders if any. In general, we do not entertain requests in personal capacity except for compelling reasons or exceptionally strong justification. Given the year of production of the concerned programme, we are afraid that the chance of retrieving the materials under request seems practically remote. Thank you again for your understanding.

Kind regards,

Zoe Wong

For and on behalf of

Corporate Communications and Standards Unit

Radio Television Hong Kong

I kind of predicted this to be honest, I highly doubted they'd give out any material.

 

 

Since the video and transcripts are still under copyright license managed by RTHK, then it is better not to use their video and upload it with English subtitles later.  At any rate, I think it should be alright to post the Chinese transcript file that was created by the fansub group 奇遇电影字幕组 (cinematik) here.  However, if the admin/mods do not think it is appropriate to post the file in this forum, please delete it.

Kowloon Walled City 城寨旧事 (1979).txt

[Chris_a_1986]

Thank you eslang, you saved me a huge amount of time and effort with this, literally it took nearly a solid week to get as far as I am and only since I'm off sick from work or it'd have taken longer. This should speed it up a bit.

And as for the copyright thing, I won't do it if the mods won't allow it. Once I've subbed the video I was going to upload it onto YouTube so anyone can watch it, but you don't think it'll be legally safe to do this? If not then I'm not sure I don't want to get into trouble.

Also, is this a direct copy of the subs? Or did you change some while listening to the audio? Just thought I'd ask.

Thanks again.

[eslang]

Don't mention it.  Hopefully, the Chinese transcript can be of some help for you to understand the video. The transcript file attached is as per the Chinese subtitles.  No changes were made to the transcript, even though I concur with skylee that there are some mistakes in the Chinese subtitles, but I think it is sufficient to understand the gist of it.

 

 

There are some mistakes in the subtitles, but they are not bad.

Not too sure if this should be called documentary. The dialogue does not sound that nat
 

RTHK 香港電台 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6of7UYhctnYmqABjUqzuxw

 

RTHK have their own YouTube channel. RTHK can file a report to YouTube management, in the event that you upload their license video and copyright materials without their permission. So there is a possibility that "your English version of the video" may be removed eventually. 

 

There is a forum user, mlescano, who uses the Amara site to sync the transcripts from some of the YouTube videos.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/51745-%E5%BF%AB%E4%B9%90%E6%B1%89%E8%AF%AD-with-%E8%8B%8F%E7%8F%8A-transcripts-or-subtitles/#comment-398378

 

Anyway, the Chinese transcript file is good enough for me. 

 

Good luck with your project.

[Chris_a_1986]

Yes of course, the main point of all this was to personally get a better understanding of the video and I have done, and that's thanks to the help I've received on the forum, which I appreciate a lot! Once I get it all done I'll post what I come up with here and hopefully someone can have quick scan through it to see if there's any major errors, I hoping there won't be that many.

 

Thanks again.