Pursuing masters degree or PhD in China - is it too hard?

[zhongguoren93]

Hello everybody!
I just want to know is it too hard to pursue masters degree or PhD in China if you passed HSK 5? Is it too hard to understand books and is it too hard to write thesis?
Every advice would be helpful.
 

Thanks!

[ZhangKaiRong]

Short answer: Yes.

 

Long answer: HSK5 level is a joke. Not even HSK6 is good enough for pure academic purposes. You will struggle with academic Chinese, and you'd need to work hard and expand your vocab on your selected field.

 

Why do you want to do your masters or PhD in China? In most cases, it's not a good investment, as the general level of education is... how to put this in a PC way... well below the expected standard compared to a decent Western university.

[Angelina]

how to put this in a PC way... well below the expected standard compared to a decent Western university

 

 

Aren't we being condescending and slightly orientalist here? Out-group homogeneity at its finest. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-group_homogeneity

 

 

It is difficult, but worth the effort. What I have had serious difficulties with is writing. If you are interested, maybe I can start a support group, Chinese for Academic Purposes. I keep telling my advisor to apply for a research grant for this, but he says this is not his area of expertise. 

[feihong]

To better adequately answer your question, we would need to know what field of study you intend to pursue, and what country you come from (or are a permanent resident of). For example, it would be more prudent to pursue most science and engineering degrees outside of China.

 

But I agree with ZhangKaiRong that HSK 5 is probably not adequate, and neither is HSK 6. However, it should be possible to get an idea of how difficult it would be. Just go on Baidu and search for Chinese-language academic papers in your chosen field. 

[Angelina]

Also, search for academic papers written by faculty affiliated with the program you are planning to apply for. This is the best way to decide for yourself whether or not you consider the quality of education good. 

 

When I applied for my master's, I was supposed to find a prospective advisor. Certain universities in China have this policy, where you are supposed to include a form signed by a professor agreeing to be your advisor. You should check if you are supposed to do this before applying. 

[imron]

Aren't we being condescending and slightly orientalist here?

Objectively speaking, China has 2 of the top 100 universities.  For a country of China's size, and given the number of universities within China, that's not a very encouraging figure (compare say to Australia, which has a fraction of the population and universities, yet still has 6 universities in the top 100).

[Breaknet]

Personally, I would say that pursuing your education in China is all about your fixed goals: if you want to have a true insight into the Chinese culture, if you want to study about a China-related topic (such as linguistics or teaching Chinese as a foreign language) or getting an edge for diplomacy-oriented jobs, then it is relevant.

However, if you are looking to register for a ''culture-neutral'' major (such as mathematics or medicine) then, it is not advised to come here unless your home-country has even lower academic standards.

PS: if you are looking for political-related fields (such as international relations or good ol' political science degree), just don't come here: it will be a painful and torturing brainwash. 

[thechamp]

PhDs are not like taught degrees so you could basically do all your research from English language sources and probably have very little contact with Chinese teaching staff. If you're doing a scientific or engineering related subject, all the research is going to be in English anyway. I know a guy who did a Geology masters in Taiwan who just did the equivalent of the HSK4 in the Taiwan HSK. He got by fine and is now a geotechnical engineer in Australia.

 

If you want to do something like Chinese history or literature.....you'll probably never be at a level where you could contribute to research as anything other than a sort of academic curio.

[Lu]

It will be very hard. HSK 5 won't be enough. You won't understand the lectures and you'd need an ungodly number of dictionaries to understand the textbooks. Your writing won't be up to scratch.

 

That said, as others have mentioned, it also depends on what you want to study and why you want to study it in China. And on how much effort you want to put into it. I know two different Europeans who got a BA at a Taiwanese university (one in Chinese, one in international relations), so that at least is certainly possible if you're very smart and put in the effort. And if you study seriously hard from day 1, the language part at least should get easier in time.

[Angelina]

Objectively speaking, China has 2 of the top 100 universities.  For a country of China's size, and given the number of universities within China, that's not a very encouraging figure (compare say to Australia, which has a fraction of the population and universities, yet still has 6 universities in the top 100).

 

 

If you are a citizen of Australia, it would certainly be 麻烦 to learn Chinese in order to attend school in China. If you are not a citizen of Australia (me) and are given the chance to attend a top 100 (or top 150 in my case) university, it is just not smart to reject the opportunity just because Australia has more decent universities and a population/education ratio in favor of studying there. 

 

Obviously, it is not easy to learn the language. What is even more important is the fact that there is not enough adequate support available for international students willing to learn academic writing in Chinese and similar skills. Yet, the fact that this kind of support is not available right now does not mean that people should be discouraged from studying in China altogether (not by dismissing studying in China as the Other, this can backfire). I think it is better to address these issues and help each other. 

[zhongguoren93]

Thanks everybody for replies. 
Actually I am in between of HSK 5 and HSK 6. I am planning to study linguistics (of Teaching Chinese as Second Language, if linguistics is too hard). I already read parts of some book about linguistics in Chinese, I can't understand every word (of course), but I can understand what they are talking about (I wrote one paper using that book as reference). 
I want to study in China because my aid is to improve Chinese and I think if I am studying Chinese at some Chinese university, then getting degree is not bad idea (but maybe it is impossible?)

[somethingfunny]

I believe this would be fairly helpful for you to read.

 

My advice:  Think very carefully.  The logic works - "If I study at a Chinese university on a programme taught in Chinese, my Chinese will be awesome!"  The reality will most likely be that the course is badly organised and terribly taught and it will be frustrating and nowhere near as much use as being enrolled on a programme specifically for teaching Chinese to non-native Chinese speakers.

 

I did it for a year, then dropped out.

[somethingfunny]

This, also, is fairly informative about what degree programmes are like in China.  Plus, it backs up most of the teaching quality/organisational issues raised by kdavid.

[Angelina]

I am studying linguistics (master's) in China, but I would first let the people who are down voting my comments try to help you IF they can.

(Please, "don't go to China" is not really helpful, can you at least suggest where zhongguoren93 can study instead?)

[艾墨本]

It's important to think about why you want the degree from China. Degree's from Taiwan often offer similar benefits (lots of opportunities to use Chinese) but hold more global weight. 

 

If your main goal is language acquisition, maybe it makes more sense to just get a Confucius scholarship to study Chinese at an advanced level. Also, where do you want to teach? Will having the TCSOL degree allow you to teach there or will you need an additional teaching degree from where you want to teach?

 

If linguistics is what you are interested in, go for it. But keep in mind, when I think of an academic paper from China I think of this: http://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/clinical-fakes-09272016141438.html

 

Some advice I got from a previous advisor; if you aren't clear in what you want to do with a grad school or post-grad school degree, then don't do it.

[Tianjin42]

OP: I will reiterate the warnings here about the level of research in China. I think it would be possible for you to do this with a lot of effort and I'm sure it would result in a very decent level of Chinese but you need to think about your goals. I spent considerable time researching this possibility and spoke to a British guy who had already done this. It may be argued that perceptions are overly negative but underneath, there are very significant drawbacks to reading a PhD at a mainland Chinese institution. This will almost certainly have a very significant effect on your career after obtaining the PhD. 

 

To be clear, this view is held by a number of Chinese friends who took PhDs both in China and abroad. I would concur. The research environment isn't particularly good (and in many cases it has deteriorated since 2008). European PhDs increasingly resemble the American model, including significant career training and assessment throughout the process. This type of training is, in my experience sought after by academic and business institutions alike. In fact, as a rule of thumb, those with a PhD at a decent university in the US have a higher chance of securing a post-doc position at a European university than vice-versa. 

 

Performing research in China would be amazing and you would benefit in a number of ways but first consider what precisely you would like to get out of this. 

[roddy]

It's also worth bearing in mind that for large swathes of the world, a postgrad in China is both better quality that what they'd get at home and much more affordable and accessible than an EU/US option. We were asked about the *linguistic* challenges. Point in the direction of perhaps-relevant info by all means, but there's no need to hammer home the answer to questions unasked. 

[Angelina]

In fact, as a rule of thumb, those with a PhD at a decent university in the US have a higher chance of securing a post-doc position at a European university than vice-versa. 

 

 

This is true. I hope the conversation on graduate school in China can be similar. When comparison between US and European universities can be civil, why not China? 

Also, for undergraduates, US universities usually offer the freedom to elect any courses you are interested in. In China and continental Europe, you go to school to study biology, you study biology, and are not really given the chance to broaden your horizons. No wonder it is easier to secure a post-doc position in both China and Europe with a US degree, while the opposite direction is not that easy. This is not because of some mysterious "Western university" concept, on the contrary, it can be explained rationally. When interdisciplinary research is encouraged, students do better. Europe has the same problem China has when it comes to this. In addition, China has other challenges. For example, can international students learn Chinese?

[somethingfunny]

 

 

I just want to know is it too hard to pursue masters degree or PhD in China if you passed HSK 5? Is it too hard to understand books and is it too hard to write thesis?

 

OK, lets take this at face value.

 

1) No, it is not too hard to pursue a masters degree in China with HSK 5.  Your principal challenge is going to be getting onto the course - in an administrative sense.  This means dealing with the admissions office and securing your visa.  With HSK 5, you should be OK doing this.  Despite what I say below in response to the second question, if you stick it out for the 2.5-3 years it will take, you will almost certainly be awarded the degree, regardless of what work you do (or do not) turn in.

 

2) Yes, you will not be able to read the set texts with HSK 5.  And you almost certainly won't be able to write a thesis at Masters level, not to mention PhD.

[thechamp]

Being awarded a PhD though has more to do with submitting your final work. In science the experimental stuff doesn't even need to prove what you set out to, and in engineering what you were trying to do doesn't even need to work! In the humanities it seems that the more obscure your research path, the better  I have friends with PhDs in maths, english lit, and civil engineering and they all said it's actually a bit of a free for all once you're onto the program and the funding. You have meetings and stuff but once you're actually pursuing 'interesting' work you're inevitably doing stuff that your supervisor doesn't really know in detail, so in theory you could just bullshit (although obviously you want to use the PhD time to become an expert in your subject!).

 

My point is though that being awarded a PhD regardless is not a criticism of Chinese universities per se....and in fact in the UK even, a lot of people who choose to defer their final years do so because they personally are not comfortable submitting that year.