How to learn any language in six months: Chris Lonsdale

[杰.克]

7 hours ago, Demonic_Duck said:

Where there's a real value proposition

 

The thing is though. With language acquisition how many NEW and INNOVATIVE language learning propositions can there be? It's not like a games console, where new iterations bring cool new value propositions to advertise off the back of.

 

So yeah, if you have already a good reputable brand maybe you don't need sexy marketing. Or if somehow you've got a new way of learning Chinese maybe you don't need sexy marketing. I'm not going to sit here and say you wont be able to link to at least some products that aren't clickbaitey.

 

BUT - the large majority of products, courses, blog posts, newspaper articles, youtube videos, education books whatever SEX up what is achievable. All modern media/sales/content/politics relies on exaggeration.  And language learning products are particularly vulnerable to this becoming detrimental.

 

Thus why I say, people have completely out of whack expectations for what a normal (think statistically "normal" - middle of a normal distribution curve) person, might achieve  in terms of learning Mandarin. HEAVILY warped.  And yeah it pisses me off. Because in my experience, it leads to a lot of students kinda hating on themselves for not being good enough.

 

And don't get me wrong there are loads of industries like this. And I fully get why they do it. But I feel like I know this one personally, and thus i find it annoying.

 

 

 

[Demonic_Duck]

When I say "value proposition", I don't necessarily mean some unique and innovative feature™®© (patent pending do not steal). It could also be, for example, great customer service, or pedagogy that's carefully designed around pre-existing empirical research, or simply being more fun and enjoyable than the competition. Or any number of other compelling characteristics.

[roddy]

9 minutes ago, Demonic_Duck said:

or simply being more fun and enjoyable than the competition.

I think a lot of it is just churn. Nobody's going to watch an interview of some bloke who learned Chinese in 2018 - fresh learners want fresh videos, and everyone with a blog or a Youtube channel or whatever is desperate for content. The more I think about it, the more it seems like diets - there's very little new in the fundamentals, only in those buying and selling, and all you actually need is a few books and some application.

[杰.克]

3 hours ago, Demonic_Duck said:

great customer service

 

Dude, aint noone ever bought a Mandarin product because it had great customer service  ?

[Weyland]

10 minutes ago, 杰.克 said:

Dude, aint noone ever bought a Mandarin product because it had great customer service  

I just bought a few extra Chinese books because someone at Purple Culture took the time to help me find, and provide me with a book on writing in Chinese. Sometimes I even "gift" dictionaries and basic bundles on Pleco to diligent students because @mikelove is always quick in responses to questions, and because he takes our constant questions about Pleco 4.0 (so far I can gather) in good humor.

So, dude, some people do care about customer service. I do at least.

[Lu]

56 minutes ago, 杰.克 said:

Dude, aint noone ever bought a Mandarin product because it had great customer service

Not a specific book, probably. But for a bookstore it would help. For a school, it would be almost indispensible to get return students and word of mouth promotion.

[Guest realmayo]

On 12/2/2020 at 7:32 PM, roddy said:

Maybe capitalism is the problem. 

 

Maybe capitalism online is: there's no barrier to entry. Twenty years ago a big publishing firm would be less likely to make the investment in putting out a teach-yourself product whose foundations were built on sand, perhaps?

 

Also people are generally told that old or traditional ways of doing things are rubbish, so some "new" method online is instantly appealing.

 

But it could be that this is just accepted online practice. I remember being astonished that a website like hacking chinese, I think, others too, were proposing to take people's money in return for what seemed fairly unremarkable language learning advice. In fact really banal, soundbitey advice - more entertainment than tuition. But I'm old! I may chuckle about the guru status of some of Imron's Commandments on this site but they're all* extremely sound and straightforward and don't work, without hard work, which probably makes them less easy to monetise.

 

*apart from some preposterous notions about SRS

[Moshen]

A lot of people in this discussion seem to be wondering whether language learning programs could be sold honestly, without hype or exaggeration. 

 

If your goal is to sell as many units as possible, any which way, then the answer is no.

 

However, if your goal is to create an honest business that may not be the biggest on the block but makes enough money to support the work and support you, then yes.  In every market, there's a place for people/companies who have an unglamorous yet honest approach that is solid and doesn't use hype.

[杰.克]

3 hours ago, Weyland said:

I just bought a few extra Chinese books because someone at Purple Culture took the time to help me find, and provide me with a book on writing in Chinese. Sometimes I even "gift" dictionaries and basic bundles on Pleco to diligent students because @mikelove is always quick in responses to questions, and because he takes our constant questions about Pleco 4.0 (so far I can gather) in good humor.

So, dude, some people do care about customer service. I do at least.

 

This is besides the point dude. In neither circumstance have you described an instance where you have been marketed "great customer service"  and as a result have bought a product.  You have become a repeat customer because of customer service. 

 

I think customer service is very important. But for your post to have any continuity following mine, you are going to have to tell me the Chinese language product that is named : "The Considerate Chinese Language Course - Because you matter!" or that sells itself based on its great customer service! The first time you bought pleco, wasn't becuase Mike is a nice guy. 

 

P.S amen to Pleco and Mike. Long term fan and he is a great dude. He is a perfect example of someone that didn't need to use exaggeration as his product brought a new valuable proposition, ie a useful digital dictionary. Also it has continued not to need to, because its now got a longstanding reputation.

 

 

1 hour ago, realmayo said:

I may chuckle about the guru status of some of Imron's Commandments on this site but they're all* extremely sound and straightforward and don't work, without hard work, which probably makes them less easy to monetise.

 

Imron is definately the guru. The Old G of telling it how it is. Chinesethehardway.com for me has reached cult level of wisdom. 

 

[Weyland]

2 minutes ago, 杰.克 said:

I think customer service is very important. But for your post to have any continuity following mine, you are going to have to tell me the Chinese language product that is named : "The Considerate Chinese Language Course - Because you matter!" or that sells itself based on its great customer service! The first time you bought pleco, wasn't becuase Mike is a nice guy. 

Please, leave your strawmans in the barn where they belong. I just told you I bought more of Pleco's products because they had great customer service. Just like I bought more books from Purple Culture because I knew that they were putting in an effort to provide me with the materials I (might) need, even if it later turns out that they were not the right fit I still wouldn't regret the decision. So in this fantasy world of your "customer service" can only be "marketable" if it says so on the promotional materials, or title even? Come on.

So, whenever I have food delivered or dine out in a restaurant I can only include "customer service" as a reason for repeat purchase if it was marketed to me as such the first time I attempted their product/service? Like if after eating out once I find out it tastes better than the food I microwave I can't use that as a reason because the restaurant didn't specifically market their restaurant as: "Pizza Rollio: It beats microwaved hot pockets!".

Also, continuity, really? This is the first time I have been told on the internet I'm retcon'ing their comment's continuity. I'm not even sure whether how you use "continuity" is how it supposed to work/be used. The only way my comment could "have continuity" when put in relation to yours is if I took your comment as an imperative, an universal truth/fact, and then just chimed in and never questioned or challenged what you said.
 

 

3 hours ago, 杰.克 said:

Dude, aint noone ever bought a Mandarin product because it had great customer service  ?

If someone read my review of the customer service on Purple Culture and then chose to purchase their next batch language books from them... then wouldn't that basically mean they bought it on the premise of great customer service? Or any review for that matter?

Again, to reiterate,  "customer service" can only be a defining factor in the promotion of sales of a certain products if it says so on the tin?  Come on now.

 

[imron]

5 hours ago, realmayo said:

apart from some preposterous notions about SRS

These commandments are also sound and straightforward

 

4 hours ago, 杰.克 said:

Chinesethehardway.com for me has reached cult level of wisdom. 

I should probably get around to finishing all the other drafts I have.

[杰.克]

5 hours ago, imron said:

I should probably get around to finishing all the other drafts I have.

 

Yeah buddy crack on! How many drafts have you got left to release? heres hoping for a big stash! ?

[Lu]

Quick reminder: no ad hominems and no yelling at people. Be civil or I'll close the thread. If you already are civil, this warning is not for you; just keep it up.

[imron]

1 hour ago, 杰.克 said:

heres hoping for a big stash

About 2-3 times the amount of content already there. 

[Guest realmayo]

2 hours ago, imron said:

About 2-3 times the amount of content already there

I imagine you'll be deleting all the existing content and starting afresh right?

[imron]

It’s a limited offer - buy now or it will be gone forever!

[mandarynski]

On 12/3/2020 at 9:01 PM, realmayo said:

some of Imron's Commandments on this site but they're all* extremely sound and straightforward and don't work, without hard work, which probably makes them less easy to monetise.

So true! I wish I followed his advice closer many, many moons ago..... would have saved myself lots of time and grief!   However, as they say, there are no mistakes, only learning experiences... 

[杰.克]

On 12/2/2020 at 5:39 PM, 杰.克 said:

How to learn a language in 6 months?.... You can't

 

Continues to be such an on point statement.  Well said previous me!