X or Y Visa--Which is preferable?

[kailin]

I'm enrolling at BNU for a year of study this fall. Through a miscommunication error, the first acceptance letter and JW visa form that the school sent me indicated that I was just enrolling for a semester and would therefore need a Y visa. I spoke to the school and told them that I was intending to enroll for a year, and they then sent me the paperwork for an X visa.

It now appears that, if I am a little sneaky about it, I can choose whether to apply for an X or a Y visa. An X visa would require a physical examination (which seems expensive and inconvenient) and would require that I register my residence with the police station. The last time I lived in Beijing in a private apartment registering with the police was a long and torturous ordeal, so the idea of coming in a X visa is unappealling.

However, coming in a Y visa would mean either extending my visa for a second semester, or leaving China between semesters and getting a new Y visa. Additionally, BNU's paperwork seems to suggest that they require you to register with the police if you do not live in on-campus housing no matter what visa you come in on.

I would love to hear your advice/opinions on which visa is preferable. In particular, if anyone has experience with attending BNU on a Y visa and living off of campus, this would be really helpful. Thanks!

[roddy]

I have never heard of a Y visa before - have you got a link or any more information?

Edit: From what you say, it sounds like the Y visa is what I've always known as the F visa - 访问, or visiting, commonly referred to as a business visa.

If you can get an X visa, i would do that. The medical exam costs a bit (around 300Y last time I did it on a working visa, i think the cost is different for students) but only takes a few hours, and then you don't need to worry about renewing.

Registration with the local police station is still a legal requirement regardless of what visa you are on - it's just easier to avoid with an F visa as you don't need to go through the residence permit formalities. If the university insists you do it then that advantage disappears - I'm not sure how strict they are about enforcing it though, and at a guess you could probably do something like stay in dorms / hotel to get it done, and then move to where you really want to live.

Roddy

[Zhende ma?]

Hey I went to BNU so here are my two cents. Granted, I was on a one semester F (Y?) visa and I lived on campus.

BNU actually has good administration. When you first get there in the fall for registration they will already have a computer file on you with your visa requirements etc. If they already know you plan to stay for a year since you corrected their mistake, they may make you jump through the X visa hoops.

Living off campus means you must register with the local 公安局. I don't know how much of a pain registering is but at least you have the school administration for support if you do it up front.

If you want to use the F visa and then extend maybe you should tell them (for a second time) you only plan to stay one semester at first. My opinion is though X seems like it is a hassle up front, it probably saves you effort and maybe even problems down the road.

[kailin]

Thanks for your comments, Roddy and Zhende. I'm sorry if I got you confused about the potential existence of a brand new type of visa. What I was calling a Y visa is definitely an F visa (my brain just got stuck on X and Y).

Roddy, when I last came to China it was on a working visa and I got to do my medical exam once I arrived, but I think with the F (Y) visa you have to do the exam before applying for your visa (which in my case would mean paying lots of dollars to do it in the US). If it was possible to do the exam in the China that would be great. Does anyone have experience with this?

And Zhende, good tip about the up-to-date state of the BNU files. Good to know before I start trying anything tricky! I just wish there was a way to do the right thing but still avoid registering for a residence permit. (The idea of registering somewhere acceptable and then moving has also crossed my mind).

Many thanks, both of you.

[roddy]

Unless things have changed very recently (and there have been some changes, but I don't think they are relevant) then there is no need for a medical check when you are on an F visa. The medical is part of the application for a residence permit, not the visa, and with the F visa you don't need the residence permit, hence no medical.

However, perhaps some embassies do require a medical before issuing an F visa - I've always got my F visa from agencies in HK, where things are shall we say, different.

Bear in mind the difference between registering with the local police station, and the residence permit. Registering with the police is something all foreigners should do, regardless of visa type, within 24 hours of arriving in a new place. In tourist hotels and I think student dorms, this is taken care of automatically. If you are staying with friends, or in rented accomodation off-campus, you should do this yourself.

If you don't do this, there is the potential for a knock on the door from the police, but the worst I've ever heard of is a talking to and a 500Y fine - the maximum, I believe.

Obtaining the residence permit is a different procedure, and is conducted with the 'foreigner-handling' branch of the PSB - in Beijing they're near Yonghegong. You only need to do this for working (Z) and student (X) visas. Also, proof of registration with the local police station is part of the application procedure (see note below), so if you are on a working or student visa, not registering becomes more problematic.

Not obtaining the residence permit is a much more serious offence, and once your 30 day leave-to-remain that your student / working visa expires you are considered to be in China illegally, which means running up 500Y a day fines. I've heard of cases where these fines are reduced massively / waived for people who have decent excuses and are apologetic, but it's not a situation you want to be in.

Couple of notes.

Although I understand that registering with the police is a pre-requisite for the residence permit I have once previously got the permit without registering. This suprised me, and I suspect it was a one-off oversight rather than a change in procedure.

Comments on visa procedures above are as I understand it. There have been changes lately, linked to above, and bear in mind that I've never even held an X visa, so quite possibly don't know what I'm wittering on about.

Roddy

[gato]

Bear in mind the difference between registering with the local police station, and the residence permit. Registering with the police is something all foreigners should do, regardless of visa type, within 24 hours of arriving in a new place. In tourist hotels and I think student dorms, this is taken care of automatically. If you are staying with friends, or in rented accomodation off-campus, you should do this yourself.

Is this an official rule? I've only seen the 30-day residential registration requirement.

This page (http://www.tealic.com/visa.htm) says nothing about the 24-hour requirement.

[roddy]

Have a look at this

It's a real rule, but patchily enforced. The situation in Beijing seems to be that if you are in cheap local accomodation and nobody bothers to report you, they'll leave you alone (I haven't registered for over 2 years now, despite have obtained a residence permit in that time). However, if you are in a building where there are lots of foreigners they will occassionally come and knock on doors. For reference, I don't know anybody who has voluntarily gone along and registered - they've always done it as part of the residence permit application, or because they've been paid a visit by the police.

I'd be interested to hear if people are getting hold of residence permits without registering at the local police station (bearing in mind that if an employer or school is handling your visa, you may well have been registered without knowing about it).

Roddy

[kailin]

Roddy, can you clarify your situation? Am I correct in thinking that you have not registered with the police (because of a lucky fluke, or whatever) but you do have a residence permit?

What has your experience with residence permits been like? Has it been hard to get registered for local Chinese (instead of expat price) apartments, for example? The one time I did this is was a serious struggle, but I am wondering if it was maybe a lot harder than it ordinarily is?

You mentioned that not having a residence permit could get you into some serious trouble. How serious do you think it would be if you were registered somewhere, and then moved somewhere else?

Kailin

http://tantian.blogspot.com

[roddy]

I was previously on a Z visa + Residence permit. I fully expected to have to go and register locally, but it was never even mentioned. I did all the other stuff, like get the Foreign Expert Certificate and the medical.

I've since then moved to an F visa.

Registering, I think, probably depends a lot on who and where and when and so on. The only first-hand accounts I've heard are of people who registered after a visit from the police, which might not be representative.

The consequences of registering, getting the residence permt, and then moving but not registering, would be the same as the consequences of not moving in the first place - a possible visit from the police, and a 500Y fine as above.

If you've got an X visa, I'd just register - visas and permits are hassles, but once you get them over with, they're over. The peace of mind of having all documentation in order is worth it.

Roddy

[gato]

Is an F visa more flexible than a Z? I thought the Z was the long-term version of the F.

[StealthyBurrito]

Regarding residence permits and registering with the Public Security Bureau, don't get those two things confused. A residence permit is required for the X visa, and this you should get because it saves you a lot of trouble regarding visas (a residence permit acts as a multiple-entry visa) and the consequences are a lot more severe since an X visa only lasts 30 days (it's replaced by the residence permit in theory). F visas are easier in that you don't have to get medical exams, but unless you manage to get a double-entry visa or multiple entry visa in the States (not likely), you will have to reapply for a new visa when you leave the country (somewhat of a pain, especially if your JW202 dates don't match with your dates of travel) in order to reenter.

Regarding registering with the PSB, as roddy mentioned, it's not a big deal. You pay a fine if you are caught without registering, but they won't arrest you or anything like that (as far as I know, I'm sure they could come up with an excuse if they really wanted to arrest you for some reason). I just got a place, but I didn't register within 24 hours (in fact I haven't yet). The landlord just offered to change the date on the contract so it was "within 24 hours."

[chiahuei]

as per my title, i was wondering how much it costs to register with the police if i lived off-campus? i understand that i won't have to go through that if i live at blcu dorms but they're so pricey so i'm looking for an apartment outside. what will i need to show to the police?do i need any proof of contracts?

[Shiela]

Hi All,

Going back to the visa issue, here is the advice given to me in Feb06 from a private language institute in Beijing.

CHINESE VISA

Q1) I hold a permanent HK ID card (old style), as well as a British passport, but live in London. Is it cheaper to get a China re-entry permit or a visa?

REPLY: It is absolutely more convenient and cheaper to enter China with your HK ID Card and the China Re-Entry Permit. Many students who have the HK ID and China Re-Entry Permit will enter China using these identification. Just make sure both your ID cards are valid for the entire time that you will be in Beijing.

Q2) Can I get a China re-entry permit from London?

REPLY: The Chinese Embassy (London) says:

“ You can only get these from HK and only with a HK passport. You can no longer get a China re-entry permit with a HK ID smartcard. In addition, you cannot hold dual nationality with a HK passport.”

Q3) Which visa should I apply for?

REPLY: Students studying in China for 4 weeks can obtain an L visa (a tourist visa); less than 6 months require an F visa (for business and short-term advanced study); and more than 6 months require an X visa (for one year students) as well as a physical examination.

Q4) I wish to travel within China before/during and after my time studying, will the visa cover the full duration and purpose of visit – around 7 months in total?

REPLY: No, your visa will only cover you for the time that you are studying in China. If you wish to have your visa cover you for the duration of time past your study program, then you will be required to extend your visa.

There will be a fee associated with this where you must pay for any visa support documents as well as the fees for the visa extension to the Chinese Visa Authorities. The fee will depend on the type of passport you hold, the length of the visa extension, as well as number of entries you would like for this new visa.

So, as stated above, people with the HK ID and China Re-Entry Permit prefer to use their ID instead of getting a visa for convenience and cost reasons.

Q5) Would I still need a health examination if I only study for 5 months but travel for up to another 2 months?

REPLY: Generally speaking, only students who receive the X Visa will be required to get a health examination.

If you are planning to be in Beijing for 7 months, you will not have to get a health examination because you will likely enter with an F visa. However, if you somehow ended up getting an X visa, for your 5 months study, then you may be required to get a health examination.

For foreign students, we generally recommend them to get an F visa for reasons as stated below. However, if you can get here with your China Re-Entry Permit, then that may be better for you.

F Visa Is Recommended

Please note that we recommend students to apply for an “F” visa. That is because should you wish to extend your stay in China past your study program, you can extend your F visa more easily than the other visas. The F visa is the most flexible because of the following:

a) It allows for longer visitation time in China than the L visa (Tourist Visa)

B) F visas extensions can be done more cheaply than other visas

c) It allows you to do business activities (i.e. consultancy, teaching, etc.) in China

Please note that if you get an X visa, in order to remain in China after the completion of your study program, you must re-enroll into a school before the X visa can be extended. If you decide not to continue studying after your program finishes, but rather decide to do something other (i.e. work in China, travel, etc.), you will be required to leave China and re-enter with a new visa. The X visa cannot be changed into any other type of visas.

Q6) Do you need to have the health examination to apply for the X visa?

REPLY: No, you can apply for visa before the health examination.

NOTE: Friend who has done this, suggests getting the health examination in your home country as it can be expensive in China and "not what you expect - although ok".

Hope this helps.

[Fropie]

I'm a bit confused about the requirements for temporary residence. I'm coming on an X visa to study a "one year" course at a university. In reality, it's only 10 months. So I'll be applying for temporary residence to last the duration of the course.

I've read, I believe on the official site of the public security bureau, that if an X visa holder wants temporary residence (less than a year) the medical exam is waived. Is this true? I had an exam done here in the U.S., but the doctor did not do EKG or X-rays, just physical and blood tests. I presented the medical exam with my visa application form at the consulate, but they didn't even look at it. My university has told me to bring the form to registration or I may need to do a "re-check" in China.

I only have about 2 days to get exam, registration, registering with police, applying for residency permit, etc... so if I can skip any of those steps, that would be great...

[Shiela]

Hi Fropie,

I have also been issued an X visa (even though I requested an F visa) and I'm only studying for 1 semester. According to the note that the Chinese Embassy (London) attached to my passport, I have 30 days upon entry to register with the PSB.

I spoke to the International students office at Renda university and they say that the office will help with the visa process. However, I am still required to have the medical exam done. As I am already travelling and won't be returning to the UK before hitting Beijing, I shall be having the medical exam there.

I believe that the length of your study is irrelevant if you are issued an X visa. My understanding is that all X visas require a medical exam. I'm not sure if your US medical exam will count, but I'd bring it with you and give it a try.

Regards,