Particular use of 的 (modal particle?)

[fabiothebest]

I was speaking Chinese with a Chinese person and I said "我需要你的帮助”. The answer was "我会帮助你的” I was told it sounds natural, but I don't know the grammar. I understand "我会帮助你” but I don't know why "的” is used here. Can you explain? My friend wasn't able to explain this.

I posted this question somewhere and the answers I got were: 的 is used because the sentence sounds more natural with it; another answer was: people tend to put 的 at the end of sentences that contain 会.

 

Maybe the second answer isn't complete but makes more sense for someone who isn't a Chinese native speaker and tries to understand. Saying "it sounds natural" only isn't something a learner of Chinese would consider enough to understand .

 

Can 的 be used also at the end of sentences without 会?

 

I know 的 is a 修饰词 and is used for expressing possession or used as a structural particle.

 

I checked the Chinese grammar wiki and found nothing at first, but checking better I found "的 as a modal particle". https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Using_"de"_(modal_particle) I think this answers my question, anyway I will still post this topic, maybe someone can explain better and provide more examples or it can be useful for some other people.

[somethingfunny]

I gave up trying to understand this a long time ago.  我会想你的! What!?  I think the explanation given in that article is probably as good as it's going to get.  I guess grammatically it could be seen as some relative of the 是。。。的 construction used for emphasis:  我是会帮助你的.  But I guess this is going to throw up all kinds of linguistic difficulties...

[Publius]

This is all I can find from Chinese: A Comprehensive Grammar (2nd edition):

 

Chapter 18 Modal Verbs

18.1 Semantic categories of modal verbs

18.1.3 Probability
会 huì ‘is likely to, may’ usually invites the presence of the particle 的 de at the end of the sentence:
　她会来的。
　tā huì lái de
　(lit. she probable come de)
　She will probably come.
　他不会骗我的。
　tā bùhuì piàn wǒ de
　(lit. he not probable deceive me de)
　He won’t lie to me.
Where another particle like 吗 ma or 了 le is used, it replaces 的 de:
　明天会下雨吗？míngtiān huì xià yǔ ma
　(lit. tomorrow probable fall-rain ma) Is it likely to rain tomorrow?
　她会来吗？tā huì lái ma
　(lit. she probable come ma) Will she come?
　她不会来了。tā bùhuì lái le
　(lit. she not probable come le) Probably she won’t turn up now.

 

 

'Modal particle' must be what we call in Chinese 语气助词. And yes, according to Baidu Baike, 的 is one of them:

　　肯定语气：“的、了、嘛、呢、啦、罢了、而已”或文言中的“也、矣、乎、然、焉、耳、而已、云、尔”。有些肯定语气词，如“罢了”、“而已”，有时带有主观的感情色彩。注意，肯定语气词与结构助词不同，结构助词若去掉便会影响句子的结构，而语气词去掉则无伤大雅。<-- In other words, it only changes the tone, makes the sentence 'more natural'.

 

The grammar book says the modal verb 会 is often accompanied by 的. The grammar wiki says 的 is a modal particle. Du Niang further classifies it as affirmative. Since it's an affirmative modal particle, I can think of at least one occasion where it can be used: that is, in sentences like 你这样做是不对的. This shi...de construction is also covered by grammar wiki. Notice that 你这样做不对 is a grammatically complete sentence, shi...de only makes it more emphatic. And unlike with 会, this 的 is obligatory (otherwise it wouldn't be called a 'construction').

 

Another example: 我看好你，你肯定行的！ This 的 is optional. To me it seems Its main function is to soften the tone, to show more empathy/supportiveness.

 

As for the original 会……的, there's a running gag on the internet. It runs like this:

　　魔王抓走了公主，公主一直叫。

　　魔王说：你叫吧，你叫破喉咙，也没人会来救你的。

　　公主：破喉咙！破喉咙！

　　破喉咙：公主，我来救你了！

And one of the many variations:

　　魔王抓走了公主，公主一直叫。

　　魔王说：你叫吧，你叫破喉咙，也没人会来救你的。

　　公主：破喉咙！破喉咙！

　　也没人：公主，我来救你了！

Silly but funny, isn't it?

 

Oh and it's generally a bad idea to ask a native speaker to explain how their language works. A native speaker's mind works differently from a learner's. The former: statistically, intuitively; the latter: logically, analytically. There may be rules to explain it all, but without proper training, native speakers just don't know it or can't formulate it.

 

[fabiothebest]

Thanks a lot for your answers. Some particles are quite tricky

[Apollys]

Haha, I was going to post a thread about this myself after having the same conversation with my girlfriend... The lesson I got out of it was I'm just going to have to wait until I'm exposed to a larger volume of phrases like this to understand what is "natural" (because I've tried to throw the 的 on the end sometimes and I get a look like saywhaaaaaaat??).