Lu Posted February 9, 2017 at 08:41 AM Report Posted February 9, 2017 at 08:41 AM New book, new questions... The current chapter features two (so far) mafia organisations in Hong Kong. I've decided to translate their names, or rather, to give them suitable Dutch names. (The readers are already bombarded with a large amount of Chinese names and I want to make things a little bit easier for them). Of course the mafia organisations have picked meaningful, deep names for themselves, so I'm hoping for help in translating this. They are: 洪義聯 - old and established organisation, Kowloon 興忠禾 - split from the 洪義聯 a few years before the story starts, after a leadership struggle. Also Kowloon. I'm pretty sure I'm missing most of the deeper meaning behind these names, so I'd appreciate both help with the literal meaning and creative ideas on how to translate them. Thanks in advance! Quote
Kenny同志 Posted February 10, 2017 at 05:28 AM Report Posted February 10, 2017 at 05:28 AM 洪義聯：「洪」可能指洪門；「義」指合乎正義的行為（或事情）；「聯」當指聯合，引申為組織，類似英文所謂fraternity。 「興忠禾」頗為費解。 These are fictitious names, I suppose? If so, you can turn to the author for help. 1 Quote
Lu Posted February 10, 2017 at 08:14 AM Author Report Posted February 10, 2017 at 08:14 AM I assume they're fictional, the whole chapter deals with their internal politics and its consequences. So 洪义联 would be something along the lines of Brotherhood of Justice? League of the Just Brothers? The irony... Quote
Kenny同志 Posted February 10, 2017 at 11:04 AM Report Posted February 10, 2017 at 11:04 AM Quote So 洪义联 would be something along the lines of Brotherhood of Justice? League of the Just Brothers? The irony... Yes, it should be something like these. 1 Quote
Publius Posted February 10, 2017 at 11:17 AM Report Posted February 10, 2017 at 11:17 AM 2 hours ago, Lu said: League of the Just Brothers? I like the sound of "Righteous Brothers". Wait... that's a band name! And a Google search revealed why it's so familiar: Oh my love / My darling / I've hungered for your touch... Sorry I can't help you. To me they're just random combinations of common characters usually found in triad names. 洪興幫 could be an equally convincing name. What? Already taken? Ground, open up and swallow me please. 1 Quote
Kenny同志 Posted February 10, 2017 at 11:41 AM Report Posted February 10, 2017 at 11:41 AM 我在二樓說「『義』指合乎正義的行為（或事情）」，是引述自中國人民大學中文系古漢語教研室所編《古代漢語詞典》。細想一番，覺釋義過狹。轉而查《王力古漢語字典》，裏面說，義指「社會認為合宜的道理和行為」，釋義準確一些。此字難譯，用「justice」譯之很勉強，不能完全傳達其含義。 Edit: To comply with the rules of Chinese-forums.com, I have translated the above Chinese into English: When I said that 義 referred to '合乎正義的行為（或事情）' I was quoting 古代漢語詞典. I was not very satisfied with that explanation so I turned to 王力古漢語字典 and was not disappointed. The latter dictionary provides a more accurate definition saying that 義 means '社會認為合宜的道理和行為'. In my opinion, 義 is quite tricky to translate. I cannot say that it is wrong to translate the character as 'justice' but obviously the English word does not fully convey what it means. Quote
Lu Posted February 10, 2017 at 01:32 PM Author Report Posted February 10, 2017 at 01:32 PM I think 義 in this particular case wouldn't refer to 'justice' in general anyway, but rather to what the 黑社會 considers to be just among its own members (and not to the general public). Would you agree? But as I understand things, the precise names here are not that important. They are mainly just plausible names for 黑社會 organisations, so for the translation I need something that has roughly the same meaning and sounds plausible. To avoid an overload of irony, I think I might translate 義 here with something like 'brotherhood' rather that any type of real 'justice'... Quote
Michaelyus Posted February 10, 2017 at 03:06 PM Report Posted February 10, 2017 at 03:06 PM 正義 in Biblical translation refers specifically to "righteousness". I'd consider that an appropriate translation. Quote
dwq Posted February 10, 2017 at 05:32 PM Report Posted February 10, 2017 at 05:32 PM Are you sure it is 禾 and not 和？ 和字頭 are a group of triads each name starting with 和 . https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/三合會 Quote
Lu Posted February 10, 2017 at 05:49 PM Author Report Posted February 10, 2017 at 05:49 PM 16 minutes ago, dwq said: Are you sure it is 禾 and not 和？ You're quite right to ask because I can be prone to typos, but in this case it's really 禾. Quote
Kenny同志 Posted February 11, 2017 at 06:17 AM Report Posted February 11, 2017 at 06:17 AM Quote I think 義 in this particular case wouldn't refer to 'justice' in general anyway, but rather to what the 黑社會 considers to be just among its own members (and not to the general public). Would you agree? I think it's what they consider to be morally correct... 1 Quote
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