adjective before / after noun (头脑清醒的人)

[Tulee]

Hey guys, hope you do not mind me asking another question ( i  know this topic has been discussed before, but when i look at former posts about this issue i still cannot wrap my head around it.

I came across a sentence in the news today that reignited my desire to understand the grammar behind this issue:

 

日本泡沫经济沸腾时，也有少数头脑清醒的人曾经发出警告说

 

That is to say, why could we not say 清醒头脑 instead of the other way around. I have always translated the adjective-noun structure in chinese to be an adjective-phrase ( in this case, it would be clear-headed (people), while an noun-adjective, in my eyes, is just like the english structure of following the noun with a modifier ( in this case it would be (people) whose heads are clear ).

 

I have never understood why the placement of the adjective in relation to the noun is so arbitrary, and in this case, i feel it should be 清醒头脑 ( so the phrase would be translated as <there were a minority of clearheaded people who....>

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks a ton!

[Daniel Tsui44]

清醒头脑 means "to make head clear" "清醒" is a verb here rather than an adjective.

清醒的头脑 "清醒的" is an adjective.

头脑清醒 "清醒" served as an adjective.

也有少数头脑清醒的人曾经发出警告说  "头脑清醒的" served as an adjective.

[Tulee]

So, if it was 清醒的头脑 （or with a possible verb for "have" before it)，could it be used instead of 头脑清醒？

[Daniel Tsui44]

Yeah, it'll work.

日本泡沫经济沸腾时，也有少数有着清醒的头脑的人曾经发出警告说  OK but not good.

日本泡沫经济沸腾时，也有少数有着清醒头脑的人曾经发出警告说      Also OK. "清醒" served as an adjective here and "的" is omitted.

日本泡沫经济沸腾时，也有少数清醒头脑的人曾经发出警告说             Not OK. it may mean "there was a minority of people who was clearing their head warning that..."

[goldy]

I think it just sounds better overall to native speakers. For example you could have kong， 设施完善的。。，个子高的，实力雄厚的。，教育程度较低的。。  etc。 With all of these examples it removes the need to add extra 的s  when modifying a noun that comes after them.

[lips]

Notice the  “有着” before “清醒(的)头脑” in the examples that work (but a bit cumbersome).  Without it, “清醒头脑” would not work (to mean "clearheaded"), as pointed out.  Usually in an adjective phrase that has an adjective itself,like 头脑清醒, the adjective within the phrase comes after the noun.

 

Why?  Why not?

 

Most adjectives in French come after the noun too.

[Publius]

Structure-wise, there are only four types of phrases in Chinese:

联合 (parallelism, A + B)

偏正 (modifier + headword)

主谓 (subject + predicate)

动宾 (verb + complement)

A 偏正词组 in Modern Chinese requires a structural particle 的/地/得.

Without 的, 清醒头脑 is parsed as 动宾 "to clear one's head".

In 有着清醒(的)头脑 however, it is clear the whole phrase is 动宾结构. That means 清醒(的)头脑 must be a noun. Therefore, 的 can be omitted in 有着清醒头脑的人 to avoid repetition and achieve a better rhythm. (But it's not good to omit 的 in 这个人有着清醒的头脑.)

Chinese lacks the morphological clues of English (e.g. -ed). It's more analytical than English, and word order affects greatly how a phrase is interpreted.

 

头脑清醒 is 主谓结构. 头脑 is the subject, 清醒 is the predicate.

Chinese adjectives differ from adjectives of European languages in that they are stative verbs. They can predicate a sentence.

清醒 does not mean "clear". It means "is clear". So 头脑清醒 is actually a sentence.

这个人头脑(很)清醒 again is 主谓结构. (It's actually topic-comment. But traditionally we just call it 主谓.) 这个人is the subject (or topic). the verbal phrase (or commenting sentence) 头脑清醒 describe that person the same way 很诚实 does.

When a verbal phrase modifies a noun attributively, you need a 的 to turn the verbal phrase into an adjectival phrase.

So 头脑清醒的人 is 偏正结构. Adjectival phrase 头脑清醒的 + head noun 人.

 

Moreover, without a subject, 清醒 is still a verbal phrase. That's why you need 的 when it precedes a noun as a modifier in 清醒的头脑.

 

To sum it up, 清醒的头脑 => noun phrase ((S)+N), 头脑清醒 => verb phrase (Sub+V). 清醒头脑 => verb phrase (V+Obj)

 

That's a lot of mental exercise. Hope your head is still clear. Cheers.

[Daniel Tsui44]

Check this out.

发达（的）城市的学校有完善的设施。 OK. 

城市发达的学校有完善的设施。OK but not good.

优势（的）学校的设施很完善。OK.

学校优秀的设施很完善。Not OK.

设施完善的学校在发达（的）城市。OK.

完善设施的学校在发达（的）城市。Not OK.

城市的学校OK.  学校的城市 Not OK.

学校的设施OK. 设施的学校 Not OK.