What Chinese Study Resource Do You Wish You Had NOW?

[Qiaonansen]

大家好！

 

I'm working on getting a Chinese blog/learning resource up and running. I have some good content, but it often takes several days to prepare. The result, 2 to 3 days of no posts.

 

So, here's my question:

 

What kinds of "daily" content would you find most helpful to your learning? Kind of like a "Word of the Day". Something that takes little time for me to prepare, yet you would find extremely helpful.

What do you need a daily dose of that would be helpful AND engage you?

 

Thanks in advance!!

[Shelley]

For me something that makes me speak. I have lots to read and write and even listen to but I need something to make me talk out loud.

 

Can't imagine how you could do something to help, so I don't really expect you to do something but it is my answer to your question.

 

[Qiaonansen]

Well actually, this is something I could provide. When I lived in China, I was quite shy and didn't like talking to people and was very wary of making mistakes and looking foolish. So I had to come up with a method to improve my speaking. It worked really well. Chinese can't tell I'm a foreigner on the phone. Though I'm not completely fluent, when I engage in conversation, Chinese think I'm much more fluent than I really am because my pronunciation is nearly perfect. I outline the method here: (sorry if all that sounded like bragging)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzyR6v3iNyw&t=80s

 

The method uses Google Translate's audio feature, because many who have trouble conversing with others don't want to practice with a native speaker. Plus, you have to pay a native speaker, usually. With GT, you can practice all day for free and get fluent and standard quickly.

 

It would be great if I could find a way to create daily posts sharing sentences using this method that isn't time-consuming. I'll think on it.

[somethingfunny]

While I think repeating good content out loud after listening to it, if you watch that video until seven minutes you'll see one of the potential problems with this method.

[Qiaonansen]

That is true. If you watched past seven minutes, you'll see that I caught the mistake myself and corrected. I do think that the benefits outweigh this small glitch..... don't you? Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

It's funny how many people on this forum have trashed this method with Google Translate, yet all my students who use it faithfully can speak with a near perfect accent.

 

Keep in mind that I have been teaching Chinese in university and high school for 8 years. I currently have 45 students in my class this semester. They use this method with tremendous success (those that actually use it).

 

THE FIX FOR THIS: likely the student is pasting or typing in a sentence from a text. One can simply verify that the tones are correct. Having used this method for a while, I can confidently say that this rarely happens.

As well, one could submit feedback to Google so that the "crowd" can slowly eliminate these errors.

 

Cheers!

[somethingfunny]

I didn't "trash" your method, just pointed out one of the potential problems.  

 

Obviously you were able to spot the incorrect tone - I also spotted it immediately and waited to see if you would pick up on it, but a beginner wouldn't know this tone was incorrect and would have ended up learning 发展 as fa3zhan3.

[Qiaonansen]

I am quite sensitive about this only because this method was the Holy Grail of my speaking ability, yet every time I've shared it here, someone had to point something negative out without commenting on the benefits and positive aspects of it. I see learners struggle and I'm like "here, try this", and then someone has to poo poo it.

 

No worries... thanks for mentioning it... and more importantly thanks for watching the video through to the end. I appreciate that.

 

Cheers and good luck in your learning.

 

Jonathan

[Shelley]

It lacks someone to correct me or tell me I have got it correct. I approach it all too timidly because I don't want to learn mistakes.

My ear is rubbish, I can't carry a tune in a bucket so I have no idea if I am close, right or way off. I need feedback. I think I will just try and be more disciplined with HelloChinese which does have this.

I was hoping for a bite size something that landed in my inbox every morning and made me speak for about 5 minutes in total and could correct me.

I guess that's a bit too much to expect.

 

 

 

[Qiaonansen]

Hmmm.. that would be an awesome product that would definitely take some time and effort. One could charge for this. I have never looked at Hello Chinese. I'll check it out and vet for my students.

 

Though I like the idea of what you say you need. Something close to this that could be produced quickly would lack the feedback and correction you want. I'll continue to think on it.

[Shelley]

I would definitely recommend HelloChinese have a look here https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/49944-hellochinese-–-new-chinese-mandarin-learning-app-learn-chinese-speak-chinese/

 

It is free and there are no adds, there has been a new games section that been added that is not free but is not necessary to the main app. I did a review for Living the language, and I talk about it in my blog. And no I am not affiliated with HelloChinese in any way.

[Flickserve]

3 hours ago, Shelley said:

My ear is rubbish, I can't carry a tune in a bucket so I have no idea if I am close, right or way off.

 

How much repetitive listening practice do you actually do?

[Flickserve]

4 hours ago, Qiaonansen said:

 

It's funny how many people on this forum have trashed this method with Google Translate, yet all my students who use it faithfully can speak with a near perfect accent.

 

I wonder why it has better efficacy compared to following a recording of a native speaker that would have the nuances and intonation. What advantage does this computer app carry over a repeated loop recording of a native speaker speaking the same one sentence?

 

[Publius]

I think it's a good idea. Especially for shy talkers. And it's free.

The glitch is not too big a problem. You're suppose to practice words and phrases you already know, and concentrate on the characters.

I didn't know Google's Chinese TTS engine is far better than its English and Japanese engines. I've used Google API before. Too often the intonation is just weird (ImTranslator is a better choice). But I have to admit, its Chinese seems more than OK.

 

P.S. Your accent is perfect, could easily pass as a native -- that is until near the end of the video when you gave the full sentence. Twice in the full sentence (8:45 and 9:02) the falling tone of 确实 did not fall low enough. They sounded like que1shi2 to my ear. This also happened with the other 4-2 pair 带来. Not meant to throw cold water or anything, but there is room for improvement. Cheers.

[roddy]

I'm afraid I don't see any advantage of focusing on Google Translate over, say, any native speaker content and Audacity. Either way you'll end up in more or less the same place after more or less the same amount of time, and while TTS is a lot better than it used to be, I suspect you'd end up in a slightly better place using a human speaker. That might mean a more restricted set of materials to work with (as you're limited to whatever you have a recording for) but I'm not sure that matters - you're building up transferable skills. Honestly, if you hadn't had access to Google translate but had Audacity and a bunch of textbook CDs, what difference would it have made? Hell, some of us remember the days of the 复读机.

 

I think there's a tendency for people to assume the route they took to the summit is the best route. It probably isn't, and even if it is, there are plenty of other only marginally inferior routes. 

 

You might also want to look into back-chaining - there's a good case to be made for working backwards, rather than forwards, through sentences.

 

[Shelley]

11 hours ago, Flickserve said:

How much repetitive listening practice do you actually do?

From the "tone" of your question it sounds like you think I should do a certain amount.

 

I listen to my NPCR lessons as many times as it takes to feel I fully comprehend. I also listen to selected Slow Chinese podcasts several times.

I listen to CCTV news and documentary to hear some chinese in wild but am never happy I understand anything much.

 

What do you suggest?

 

@roddy Back-chaining looks interesting, its a bit like TPRS circling, You take a phrase, short sentence or even one word and build a longer sentence by adding words you are learning. I do this as it helps build confidence in how to use new words with what you already know and consolidate your vocabulary. Using this along with preserving the word order in any translations really solidifies my vocabulary but I still need to Speak more. I sound like a crazy person wondering around our house muttering chinese to myself. I am not sure that it is helpful because I am not actually speaking in my normal voice.

[Qiaonansen]

13 hours ago, Flickserve said:

I wonder why it has better efficacy compared to following a recording of a native speaker that would have the nuances and intonation. What advantage does this computer app carry over a repeated loop recording of a native speaker speaking the same one sentence?

 

A native speaker is always better, recordings of native speakers second best.

 

But remember, this is not some theory of mine. My students use this to great effect. Often, the full sentences are too much for a new learner to handle. Their ear has forgotten what the first character should sound like by the time the sentence gets to the end. Google Translate gives them FULL control.

 

My students have to provide recordings for me of them reciting a dialogue. The text offers a recording of a native speaker to practice with. I also share with them the Google Translate method. The students who use the GT method have far better recordings with accurate pronunciation and tones.

 

I can't explain it either. It just works. That's the only reason why I even bothered to make a video about the method.

[Qiaonansen]

2 hours ago, roddy said:

 

I'm afraid I don't see any advantage of focusing on Google Translate over, say, any native speaker content and Audacity.

 

 

Like I said above.. the "advantage" may not be evident, but for me at least, the proof is in the pudding. My students who use the Google Translate method produce better recordings than those who use the native speaker mp3s that come with the text. Go figure.

 

I actually tried to have them use Audacity, but there were two problems with this. 1) sometimes you can't get a clean break between one word and the next. And it's quite tedious selecting sections of the recording that you want. There's lots of pressing of buttons and selecting this and that. 2) perhaps the main reason is I just can't get my students to use it. There is something about the Google Translate method that is easier, less tedious.. and with more control.

[Qiaonansen]

2 hours ago, roddy said:

You might also want to look into back-chaining - there's a good case to be made for working backwards, rather than forwards, through sentences.

 

I'll have my students experiment with the back-chaining. Though I hesitate a little because what I have them doing now is working. I'll check with my school if I can post an audio here of a brand spanking new Chinese learner reciting a dialogue after using this GT method. Their may be some FERPA issues with that, but I'll ask.

[Luxi]

Thumbs up from me Qiaonansen. This seems a good way to increase significantly the time spent on casual speaking practice, in addition to class work or tutor practise. Everything is there, ready to use at any time, without any additional preparation or work, and Google Translate's vocabulary is vast. One can at least use it to learn to pronounce new words, I'm sure active repetition can help to better embed the tones in the students' memory - the tones become part of the word rather than marks attached to it.

 

One spin-off practice is to use the voice input in Google Translate or similar (Microsoft translate isn't bad for voice input) to test one's Chinese pronunciation. I have been trying it with Pleco. It needs a good microphone and a lot of patience as the Bot cycles through the homophones, but it's very gratifying when it gets the tones as one intended to pronounce them.

 

TTS voices are infinitely better than they used to be, it's not too grating to listen to 'Microsoft Hui Hui' reading an article. It helps being able to adjust speed and pitch - especially if one is hard of hearing  I'm sure a Chinese speaking Amazon Echo (Alexa) would be quite impressive if it was as good as the English Alexa, it's probably something already in development somewhere in China, give it a few months.

[Flickserve]

8 hours ago, Qiaonansen said:

 

I can't explain it either. It just works. That's the only reason why I even bothered to make a video about the method.

 

I cannot handle full sentences myself. My vocabulary range is not large enough and I frequently cannot the sentence together rather like not being able to do a jigsaw puzzle.

 

But I am very curious at why it helps because, we would think natively spoken speech is the 'gold standard' material to learn from. The answer must lie somewhere in the process.