To: Chinese learner-----a quiz

[ggonline]

If you can understand the following sentence, Congratulations!! you've reached the level of high school of native chinese speaker.

someone' life:

初从文，三年不中；遂习武，校场发一矢，中鼓吏，逐出之。后学医，有所成。自撰一良方，服之，卒。

[gato]

Hmm, here's an English equivalent of that test:

http://www.canterburytales.org/canterbury.php3?display?1?31?0?0?1????1?1

[skylee]

That's quite funny. But I thought high school level would be "higher" than that.

[in_lab]

I was reading about someone's education (in China) recently, and he wrote that he studied 論語 and 孟子 while in elementary school. That sounds more advanced than now. I know I couldn't compare with a high school student. I'd like to know when an average child can read: the newspaper, 孟子, a 金庸 novel, and 紅樓夢.

[studentyoung]

初从文，三年不中；遂习武，校场发一矢，中鼓吏，逐出之。后学医，有所成。自撰一良方，服之，卒。

戏笔，以增诸君一笑, 所译如下， ：

At the beginning, I was engaged in liberal arts, but I didn’t pass the imperial exam for three years. Then I learned martial arts, however, I was driven out of the drill ground for the arrow I shot hit the drum official. Finally, I studied medicine and made an achievement. I prescribed an effective formula for myself, took it and ended up in obituary.

哈哈哈哈哈！

(Thanks for your advice, skylee! I have amended the sentence. Thanks again!)

[skylee]

Just that the subject couldn't be "I" as at the end it is "卒".

[eddiewouldgo]

I dont think that's a good measurement, because that's 文言文，classical Chinese, a lot of chinese people themself wont understand it.

[ggonline]

I dont think that's a good measurement, because that's 文言文，classical Chinese, a lot of chinese people themself wont understand it.

I assure you that every Chinese having high school diploma will definitely understand it! and I wish you have fun

[gato]

Yeah, this is just basic classical Chinese. Probably many 9th graders would able to understand it.

Classical Chinese is Chinese counterpart to Latin, which was the common written language (though not spoken) for much of Europe a few hundred years ago, when school kids used to read Horace and Cicero in the original.

[fenlan]

I didn't understand the classical Chinese at all, but with studentyoung's translation to compare, I could see why it meant what it meant. I know this isn't the English language forum, but did anyone take the Canterbury Tales test? I am not sure that it is a fair comparison. Middle English is closer to Modern English than Classical Chinese is to Modern Standard Chinese.

[eddiewouldgo]

I assure you that every Chinese having high school diploma will definitely understand it! and I wish you have fun

hmm... I would never make a claim like that!!

Plus, if you can read "Romeo and Juliet", are you at the level of a high school native english speaker??? I dout this is true.

[ggonline]

hmm... I would never make a claim like that!!

Plus' date=' if you can read "Romeo and Juliet", are you at the level of a high school native english speaker??? I dout this is true.[/quote']

汝乃国人否？尔何出此言?

[in_lab]

If you can understand Romeo and Juliet, then that means:

1) You have already studied it, refering to many footnotes, and probably commentaries or a teacher's instruction.

or

2) You have a high tolerance for a fuzzy/incomplete understanding.

or

3) You're fooling yourself.

I guess some classic Chinese literature would be the same. I guess that you could say the same three things above about 論語. Most high school graduates could probably understand a lot of it, because of reason 1.

[gato]

I know this isn't the English language forum, but did anyone take the Canterbury Tales test? I am not sure that it is a fair comparison. Middle English is closer to Modern English than Classical Chinese is to Modern Standard Chinese.

That's true. You can make out most of the story without actually having studied Middle English. I thought of using Latin as a more a apt comparison, but then that's too hard. Even though many English words have Latin roots and many educated English writers, as recently as 50 years ago, would toss in a Latin phrase here and there to show off, it is a completely different language. The distance between classical Chinese and modern Chinese is somewhere in the middle of that between Middle English and modern English and that between Latin and English.

As for "Romeo and Juliet," a native English-speaker should be able to read it without too much trouble, if the high school degree is genuine, since it is usually taught in the 9th grade. But not all who can read "Romeo and Juliet" can claim to have native fluency, of course. Reading Shakespeare is a somewhat specialized skill.

[studentyoung]

[b']汝乃国人否？尔何出此言?[/b]

ggonline君请稍安也。愚以为eddiewouldgo君久居檀香山，恐其未识中华之实况，神州之风采，故有异议，不足为怪。待其亲涉华夏，便知端详矣。

子曰：人不知而不愠，不亦君子乎？ggonline君既以国人自居，想必大有君子之风矣。愚不才，亦愿惟君子马首是瞻也！

Studentyoung

[in_lab]

SAMPSON: Gregory, o' my word, we'll not carry coals. (1.1.1)

GREGORY: No, for then we should be colliers. (1.1.2)

SAMPSON: I mean, an we be in choler, we'll draw. (1.1.3)

GREGORY: Ay, while you live, draw your neck out o' the collar. (1.1.4)

http://www.clicknotes.com/romeo/S11.html

This is a little off topic, but I think it's interesting. Here are the first four lines of dialog from Romeo and Juliet. Did you catch 1) carry coals = take guff 2) colliers = coal miners, an = and if 3) in choler = angry 4) collar = hangman's noose? IMHO, much harder than the original post.

[gato]

Well, we can't be expected to know all Elizabethan slangs. Here's a glossary:

http://education.yahoo.com/homework_help/cliffsnotes/romeo_and_juliet/9.html

I think "collier" is still used today. "Choler" is the root word for choleric, which is a fairly common word.

If you look at the langugage of "Romeo and Juliet," as a whole, it's very close to modern English, which is why popular movies can still be made from it. Can we imagine Analects-like dialog being used in a popular Chinese movie?

[in_lab]

Can we imagine Analects-like dialog being used in a popular Chinese movie?

Good question. I can imagine one where the audience would rely heavily on subtitles. But maybe my imagination is too good.

But the Analects is not a drama. It's easier to imagine a modern version of a drama like 西廂記. In fact, I saw a modern version of it at the theater. I don't know of an earlier drama that would be more comparable to the Analects..

[gato]

I don't know too much about it, but 西廂記 is from the Yuan dynasty, which is known for its great vernacular dramas. I'll try to read it at some point.

See http://www.angelibrary.com/oldies/xixiang/xixiang1.htm

[in_lab]

You want to read it in Chinese or English?

I read it in English.

And I just remembered, the modern play that I saw was 牡丹亭, not Xi Xiang Ji. But back to the point, modern Chinese audiences still watch performances of premodern plays, but they often have to use subtitles. But I'm not sure if plays are by defintion performed in the vernacular, as opposed to 文言文.