People's opinion of CCP

[Squawk 1200]

What opinion do people in China have of Chinese Communist Party? Is it viewed like some kind of fossilized entity hampering progress or maybe the outlook is more positive?

[zander1]

22 minutes ago, Squawk 1200 said:

do people in China

 

I'm very wary of any answer to this question which is trying to summarize the opinions of 1.4 billion people.

[Lu]

That question is so broad it's all but impossible to answer. There are a lot of people in China (really, a lot) and a lot of aspects to the CCP. People's opinion will vary according to their age, the education they received, their experiences, whether they are interested in politics, their line of work, the place they live, and a large number of other factors. A school teacher from a small city will have an opinion that is very different from someone who was sent down in the sixties and is still living in a poor village, and a Beida professor's views will be different from that of an Yi tourguide.

[imron]

36 minutes ago, zander1 said:

I'm very wary of any answer to this question which is trying to summarize the opinions of 1.4 billion people.

Me too, but generally I'd say the general impression is positive, with problems blamed on corrupt local officials rather than the system or party as a whole, and far from being a fossilized entity hampering progress, the government is often seen as a major driver of progress - and with central planning and authoritarian rule, it often actually is.  A prime example of that is high-speed rail.

 

Just look at how quickly the government made (and is still making) high-speed rail a major priority and has laid ~10,000 km of high-speed rail lines in a decade.  They can do this because the government decides it's a priority and they make it happen - and it's something that brings major economic and other benefit to the country.

 

Compare this to my own country, where in 30 years a high-speed rail line between Melbourne and Sydney (700km) has yet to get beyond feasibility studies and no government has the nerve and/or determination to push it through despite Melbourne-Sydney travel being one of the highest trafficked routes in the world (ranked 4th in the world for air traffic in 2015), which is an impressive feat considering the relatively small population of Australia.

[Squawk 1200]

In my country there is one subway line in Warsaw that is 20km long and another one that is so far 6 km long and is being built since 2005...  

 

That's all for subways in a city of 2 mln people... and in a country of 38 mln people.

[imron]

The thing to realise about the Chinese Communist Party is that the modern incarnation is very different from the original incarnation.  It's Communist in name only now, and doesn't really conform with the core tenets of Communism.

[Ori_A]

My feeling is that the general impression is positive as well, but I've had many conversations on the subject with Chinese students (aged 18 - 25), and I get the feeling that it's becoming a fake positive, more ambivalent really. It is very hard for them to say bad things about the CCP, but the responses are much more delicate than the ones I got from older people. They are open to conversation, even on very sensitive subjects such as Taiwan, or the 1989 Tiananmen massacare (an event which many Chinese students don't even know about, and if they do, they only know that 'something' happend). Despite the open converstations I've had with several friends (not all of them agree to talk about it, and I'm not trying to offend anyone), their bottom line is still usually positive, and it's hard for them to admit, at least in front of me, in bad things that the CCP has done or still doing. Obviously almost every government in the world has done bad things at some points, but it's all about being honest about it and improving. One of my teachers, during a converstation he's had with us, quietly said that he believes one of the biggest problems in the history of the CCP, is that no party official has ever formally admitted the Cultural Revolution was a mistake. It showed me that people are not really blindly following everything the CCP says, even though it doesn't look like it from the outside. The effect of the internet and the growing number of foreingers coming to China is creating a difference (in my opinion, based on nothing but my personal experience), but the power of education in young ages is still stronger, and I truely believe it puts many Chinese people in an emotional dilemma regarding their attitude towards the CCP. 
At least that's the feeling I've got from taking with them about it.

[Alex_Hart]

I think the views of most (young) people I've spoken to is remarkably similar to the views of most young Americans towards their own government: it's full of mistakes, messes up all the time, does outrageous things, but is what we've got. Most students in my American uni were disgusted at the idea of a Trump presidency, yet are now back to worrying about their own lives and think the US generally operates in a relatively useful fashion, even if they're angry about several issues. My Chinese friends seem relatively similar. Asked about democracy or whatever, they'll generally respond relatively similar to if you ask a liberal New Yorker about socialism: Yeah, great in idea, but... (list several countervailing arguments before shrugging their shoulders). Call it fatalism, apathy, alienation, cellphone addiction usage, reality or whatever. There are those who are far more worried/opinionated about government in both countries, of course. I have plenty of friends from both countries who dream of the end of their respective governments.

 

I've met a lot of foreigners here who think that any wholesale change is going to come out of the ever growing population of 海归. Have to say that I have a lot of 海归 friends and don't find that their opinions differ that much - complaints about housing costs and lack of good paying jobs are way higher on their list than any wholesale critique of the governing system, much like young Americans might complain about low wages or social issues rather than suggest the government ought to throw away the American Constitution. The biggest difference is that the 海龟 are more depressed over the lack of Google. 

 

To answer the original question more specifically, I've never been under the impression from any conversation that the CCP was thought of as a fossilized entity. As imron said, Mao and Xi's CCP are two very different creatures, and I would hardly call it fossilized regardless of its flaws.

[889]

I know it's difficult, but I nonetheless think it's useful with a question like this to look at the Party separate from the government.

So I'd ask, what do people think of friends and colleagues who join the Party? Would they join themselves?

[imron]

People absolutely join the party, not for the ideology but because it opens doors and creates opportunities. 

 

Many years ago when I taught English, joining the party was something most of the students wanted to do, but it was competitive with only a fixed number of positions offered per year based on merit and guanxi. 

[889]

Yes, I know how it used to be years ago.

 

But the question is, has that changed? Does the Party now have to struggle a bit to get the kind of members it wants, and needs? Are those who do join the Party generally respected by their peers, or are they regarded with a bit of disdain?

[roddy]

It's worth remembering that the Party is *massive* - 90 million members, more than 5% of the country. It's an apples and oranges comparison, but around 1% of the UK population is a member of a political party. Everyone doesn't just know someone in the Party - the chances are they know a Party member who is a close family member or works alongside them.

 

I think there is a bit of resentment towards those who go for, and get, Party membership. It brings undoubted advantages, and those who aren't getting the advantages are going to have opinions about that. But also, you gotta be about your guanxi.

[Ori_A]

I have a good friend who has joined the party, but she's told me she did it because of some life circumstances and activities she took part in (wasn't very specific), which forced her to join. She does not share the ideology at all, but she's not hiding the fact that she's part of the CCP. She's an MA student, and I don't think she's either respected or disdained. It's part of the ambivalent approach many of the young people have today. They know that in many cases the face that you're a member of the CCP doesn't impy anything regarding who you are or what ideology you support. Adding to that the fact that many people don't really know what they themselves think of the CCP, I would assume that in many cases it really doesn't matter much. I'm sure there are countless other examples though.

[Alex_Hart]

My girlfriend was a member of the party because she graduated with top grades from college - nobody cared. She ended up dropping her enrollment because of the tiny annual fees and her desire to apply for jobs in the US, but regretted it recently as a university told her that it would make her application for a job easier. Asking her again, she says nobody would think anything of it other than "oh, that person had good grades." It is useful (necessary) for getting an iron bowl job, and otherwise the same as if you announced you had received honors.

[杰.克]

I think the question is broad. But its not impossible to answer, as long as you caveat it with this is a generalisation (which before im criticised, i dont agree that generalisatons arent in most circumstances useful/informative), i think its a pretty interesting discussion point. In my experience, people are generally quite content with their government. And in truth why wouldn't they be? I think theres very much a concept of pre and post Mao communist party. The post Mao party, in the past 30 years has seen largely competent (relative to chinas state of development) governance that has led to huge growth, huge infrastructure development, and ginormous record shattering leaps in life quality (ie China has seen the largest lifting of people from poverty in human record int the last 30 years). They know elements of their party is corrupt, but that its tolerable. I think there isnt as much of a bad image to the word corruption as there is in the west, its somewhat seen as just part of life.