Publius Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:14 PM Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:14 PM So please tell me, where is "here"? www.chinese-forums.com? this specific thread? I can be very literal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:21 PM Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:21 PM But if you want to translate well, you have to understand that 'We are here' can have many different meanings. You're looking at the map to figure out where to go. Where are we? you ask. We are here, your friend replies, pointing at the map. 我們在這裡。 Your parents are coming to visit and you're meeting them at the train station, but you're running late. They text you: We are here. 我們到了。 You marvel at humanity's existence in this grand universe. We are here. 我們來到這個世界。 Do you see what's happening? Language rarely maps one to one. You have to think about the meaning of a word or a phrase in a particular context, and only once you understand that, you can try to find the best equivalent in another language. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryG11 Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:22 PM Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:22 PM 1 minute ago, Publius said: So please tell me, where is "here"? www.chinese-forums.com? this specific thread? I can be very literal. No exactly, I think you are just being too literal. No offense either I don't mean to be a hard head if I'm coming off that way. In my opinion the line from Bukowski was meant to illicit your own type of translation of it (no pun intended with translation). Mine just happened to be very direct. Now whether it's right or wrong I don't know We are here? As in earth? As in this place in time? That's why saying your line (in my opinion) "我們來到這個世界是為了" is too literal. He doesn't mention earth/world. He doesn't mention any place for that matter. However, is leaving it just as 我们在这里 too vague? Possibly I didn't want to ask my friend who lives in Suzhou about this but I will. I'll get back to all of you about what he says is a proper translation for it. The reason why I didn't want to ask him is because truthfully I don't like my friends knowing I read poetry haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:26 PM Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:26 PM 2 minutes ago, JerryG11 said: I don't like my friends knowing I read poetry Of all the things you've posted this might be the thing I disagree with the most. Tell your friends! Ask their opinion! Agree! Disagree! Poetry gets better when shared. 3 minutes ago, JerryG11 said: We are here? As in earth? As in this place in time? That's why saying your line (in my opinion) "我們來到這個世界是為了" is too literal. He doesn't mention earth/world. He doesn't mention any place for that matter. However, is leaving it just as 我们在这里 too vague? Possibly So, considering that you feel 世界 makes it too explicit, how would you change that sentence? And do you understand what 爲了 means here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryG11 Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:31 PM Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:31 PM 1 minute ago, Lu said: So, considering that you feel 世界 makes it too explicit, how would you change that sentence? And do you understand what 爲了 means h Yeah, it would sound good without the world part. What Publius said is taking what Bukowski said and adding an element to it. Technically it's correct and it in all likelihood is what Bukwoski meant. "We are here (earth) to laugh at the odds".. but that's the argument. We don't know exactly what he meant. So adding that is kind of like putting words into the poem. On the other hand I see your argument with 我们在这里 being too vague or not translating properly into Chinese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:33 PM Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:33 PM So what would your sentence be? And do you understand why you need 爲了 here? 我們在這裡 is not wrong because it's too vague, it's wrong because it's not the right choice of words here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryG11 Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:36 PM Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:36 PM Yes, in the context of things weile adds to dao and lai with the translation coming out to something meaning. "We are here on earth to ___" That's why I said what Publius said isn't wrong, but it's adding context to a poem that is by nature kind of vague to begin with. When reading this in English they don't give mention to a place, so why would you need to in Chinese? Just because otherwise it would be too foreign to the language to keep it as is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryG11 Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:43 PM Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 at 07:43 PM Honestly, at this point I don't know how I would re-write it. I don't like adding elements to the poem just because it's in a different language. You don't need to give readers context. That's sometimes the beauty of poetry to make up your own interpretation (again no pun intended). I understand that kind of comes with the territory with translating though It's 4am in Suzhou right now. I'll be sure to ask my friend and get back to you all if you're curious from a Native speaker. I appreciate your insight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryG11 Posted June 13, 2017 at 08:47 PM Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 at 08:47 PM @Lu and @Publius Didn't feel like waiting so I asked two friends of mine here in the states instead. One is from Sichuan, the other is from Tianjin. Here's what they said Sichuan friend said "我们来这里是为了欢笑， 我们的生活是如此美好， 死神将会让我们感到恐惧“ My friend from Tianjin said "我们在这里嘲笑命，活得如此美好，死神会颤抖带走我们“ Now, I should note neither of them are translators and they said they found it very difficult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryG11 Posted June 13, 2017 at 08:53 PM Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 at 08:53 PM I also just got another one from a friend over WeChat just now.. ”我们若能大笑世事无常，好好活一场，死神也会战栗一旁“ So clearly they're all different in one way or another. Now i'm really confused haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted June 14, 2017 at 12:49 AM Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 at 12:49 AM Consider - 笑對萬難 活得精彩 震慄死神 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zander1 Posted June 14, 2017 at 12:58 AM Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 at 12:58 AM (edited) Never mind. Edited June 14, 2017 at 01:08 AM by zander1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flickserve Posted June 14, 2017 at 02:37 AM Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 at 02:37 AM 5 hours ago, JerryG11 said: So clearly they're all different in one way or another. Now i'm really confused haha Good! Translating poetry just doesn't carry the same meaning in translation, especially when you yourself mentioned it can have multiple interpretations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryG11 Posted June 14, 2017 at 04:27 AM Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 at 04:27 AM Everybody in this forum is SO nice! I can't believe it... thank you all for your unparalleled expertise in the area of Mandarin Chinese. You're all aces in my book..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted June 14, 2017 at 07:51 AM Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 at 07:51 AM On 6/13/2017 at 1:47 PM, JerryG11 said: Sichuan friend said "我们来这里是为了欢笑， 我们的生活是如此美好， 死神将会让我们感到恐惧“ This friend did not understand the original English: "We are here to laugh, our lives are so great, death will make us feel fear." :/ On 6/13/2017 at 1:47 PM, JerryG11 said: My friend from Tianjin said "我们在这里嘲笑命，活得如此美好，死神会颤抖带走我们“ This friend translated it much better. I especially like 嘲笑命, but not crazy about the rest: "We laugh at fate here, we live so well, death will tremble and take us away." On 6/13/2017 at 1:53 PM, JerryG11 said: ”我们若能大笑世事无常，好好活一场，死神也会战栗一旁“ This friend simply copied an existing common translation of this quote that takes poetic license: "If we can laugh at impermanence and give life a good go, even death will tremble aside" (that's my unidiomatic backlation. It sounds great in Chinese lol) I'm pretty sure we told you that'd happen haha. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Posted June 14, 2017 at 07:59 AM Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 at 07:59 AM I also like 嘲笑命, although I'm not sure whether in this context it won't be confused with meaning 生命. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted June 14, 2017 at 08:24 AM Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 at 08:24 AM 12 hours ago, JerryG11 said: if you're curious from a Native speaker You realise Publius is a native speaker right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryG11 Posted June 14, 2017 at 01:59 PM Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 at 01:59 PM Oh yeah, I saw he said he was fluent in his profile so he has to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
889 Posted June 14, 2017 at 07:56 PM Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 at 07:56 PM "You don't need to give readers context. That's sometimes the beauty of poetry to make up your own interpretation " At a minimum, you certainly owe readers the context of the original text. How can you fairly interpret -- whether into Chinese or just English -- a single sentence from a larger essay? Actually, you owe it not just to readers, but to the author as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryG11 Posted June 14, 2017 at 10:15 PM Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 at 10:15 PM I didn't mean me not giving context. I'm talking about the poem itself not having a lot of context in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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