Advanced learning and beyond

[TonganRambo]

For those that have reached "advanced" (sorry, kind of arbitrary) levels of Chinese, what kind of maintenance do you do, what fall-off have you noticed if you don't study for months/years and what do you now focus on to study? My studying was always very very structured as I progressed in Chinese. 

 

In the beginning, I studied from NPCR textbooks and memorized tons of sentences/sentence patterns in addition to living with a Chinese native and having quite a few Chinese friends. I ended up having a huge difference between speaking/listening and reading/writing so much of my intermediate time was spent filling holes. I went through lists like a machine, 5000 most common Hanzi, HSK 1-6, and specific vocab lists (medical terminology, business Chinese, 100 common idioms, sports vocab, etc) in addition to having a lot of speaking/listening practice from my own efforts (podcasts, reading/writing practice, hanging out with Chinese people) and from necessity (living/working with natives). I took debate/public speaking classes in University in Chinese and that really helped cement and activate a lot of what I had memorized and it really pushed me toward a higher advanced level. I still read a ton in Chinese (most of my news I get from the Chinese New York Times) and keep up with my Chinese friends on social media in addition to sporadic weekly practice when I meet Chinese people. 

 

Now that I have reached a level where I feel comfortable in Chinese, I'm not sure where to go next or how much maintenance is needed. I'm terrified of losing what I have gained through the thousands of hours of hard work and the amazing experiences I have had through it all. I will be going to graduate school in America and won't have a ton of time to focus on Chinese (I always make time to clear my Anki queue/read my religious books in Chinese). I'm also not sure what else to study. Sure I could study the next 1000 characters, or go through a dictionary and start picking out unknown words but do you think that it is worth the time? What do you advanced learners do now? What kind goals do you have now? What can I do to continue to improve? 

 

Lots of questions in there, feel free to comment on any of them.  

[abcdefg]

On 6/17/2017 at 2:42 AM, TonganRambo said:

I took debate/public speaking classes in University in Chinese and that really helped cement and activate a lot of what I had memorized and it really pushed me toward a higher advanced level.

 

That sounds like an excellent thing to do. Challenging and bold.

 

On 6/17/2017 at 2:42 AM, TonganRambo said:

Now that I have reached a level where I feel comfortable in Chinese, I'm not sure where to go next or how much maintenance is needed.

 

I can understand your concern.

 

On 6/17/2017 at 2:42 AM, TonganRambo said:

I still read a ton in Chinese (most of my news I get from the Chinese New York Times) and keep up with my Chinese friends on social media in addition to sporadic weekly practice when I meet Chinese people. 

 

Maybe that's enough. Keep doing what you're doing, would be my suggestion. Perhaps read some books about topics that you find of interest. Perhaps schedule some time to meet your Chinese friends once or twice a week.

 

On 6/17/2017 at 2:42 AM, TonganRambo said:

Sure I could study the next 1000 characters, or go through a dictionary and start picking out unknown words but do you think that it is worth the time?

 

I don't think that would be a good use of time. Words that are "clustered" around a subject or a task are much more easily learned and much more easily retained, as I'm sure you have found.

 

My level is not as advanced as yours, especially in reading. You mentioned early on in your post that you preferred a structured approach. But perhaps at this point, given your time constraints, an unstructured approach is the best solution. Do something or other frequently, and in small bits of time. You won't have huge blocks of time available.

 

Congratulations on getting to where you are! Don't fret too much about maintaining your skills. If you loose a little bit while focusing on other pressing projects, I'll bet those skills will come back quickly when you need them again.

 

And welcome to this forum! We are top-heavy with beginners, many of whom drop out after about a year. So it's good to see advanced learners showing up in these pages. We can learn a lot from you. Appreciate your contributions.

[TonganRambo]

3 hours ago, abcdefg said:

On 6/16/2017 at 0:42 PM, TonganRambo said:

I took debate/public speaking classes in University in Chinese and that really helped cement and activate a lot of what I had memorized and it really pushed me toward a higher advanced level.

 

That sounds like an excellent thing to do. Challenging and bold.

My university does quite well in producing advanced language speakers probably because these type of classes are required for a chinese major/minor. Before I took these classes I realized that one problem I often ran into was that I could understand 90-95% of most conversations but sometimes I missed an important detail (a date, a name, etc.) During the debate classes you have to listen VERY closely in order to make a coherent reply so that really helped me there. 

 

3 hours ago, abcdefg said:

And welcome to this forum! We are top-heavy with beginners, many of whom drop out after about a year. So it's good to see advanced learners showing up in these pages. We can learn a lot from you. Appreciate your contributions.

 Thanks! I actually started browsing this forum when I first started studying in 2014 and it has been a huge help. I think my situation might be helpful for those who can't feasibly go to China/Taiwan, etc. in the near future. I was able to get to a fairly advanced level in 2-3 years (I still have gaps, my grammar sometimes comes out a bit clunky, not always sure which words are spoken and which words are mainly used in books, especially because nowadays I practice reading way more than speaking/listening) while staying in America/England. I'll soon make a post about my study schedule/resources/thoughts on Chinese that allowed me to reach a fairly respectable intermediate (OPI Intermediate-mid) level after 3 months of concentrated study in England. 

[abcdefg]

6 hours ago, TonganRambo said:

My university does quite well in producing advanced language speakers probably because these type of classes are required for a chinese major/minor.

 

May I ask what university that is? Or at least where it is (what country?)

 

6 hours ago, TonganRambo said:

I still have gaps, my grammar sometimes comes out a bit clunky, not always sure which words are spoken and which words are mainly used in books, especially because nowadays I practice reading way more than speaking/listening

 

Have you had a chance to come to China yet? These issues you mention are things that being immersed can help a lot, even if it's only for a few weeks or months. Becoming able to distinguish 书面 bookish words and phrases from more natural conversation choices at full speed and on the fly is something that really requires practice with native speakers. When they chuckle and correct me as I do it wrong, I tend to remember and do it right the next time.

[TonganRambo]

15 hours ago, abcdefg said:

May I ask what university that is? Or at least where it is (what country?)

Brigham Young University, Utah, USA

 

15 hours ago, abcdefg said:

Have you had a chance to come to China yet? These issues you mention are things that being immersed can help a lot, even if it's only for a few weeks or months. Becoming able to distinguish 书面 bookish words and phrases from more natural conversation choices at full speed and on the fly is something that really requires practice with native speakers. When they chuckle and correct me as I do it wrong, I tend to remember and do it right the next time.

Unfortunately no  I reached Advanced Low (OPI, sorry, only way I really know to quantify my level) after a year and a half of self-study in England, came to America and then took some classes in Uni and then took OPI again at Advanced High. Hopefully next summer I can spend a month or two there. I'm pretty good with most things, but alot of the new words I learn come from literary sources and so I always have to check it with my native professors/friends, definitely have had that experience though! haha 

[Lu]

On 16-6-2017 at 8:42 PM, TonganRambo said:

I still read a ton in Chinese (most of my news I get from the Chinese New York Times) and keep up with my Chinese friends on social media in addition to sporadic weekly practice when I meet Chinese people.

I think all of this should go a long way in maintaining your level. You could try and find a way of also keeping up with writing, for example by keeping a blog or by corresponding (by email or letter) with Chinese-speaking friends. If you stop studying intensively (which it sounds like you've been doing), your level will sag a bit, but if you keep using the language, it won't sag much and you can get back to your previous level without much effort once the circumstances are right again.

[zander1]

Just bumping this, wondering how TonganRambo got on and if you had any updates for us?

 

To be honest I've been thinking about similar issues. In the past year I have been very lucky to be able to study pretty intensely and as such my Chinese has improved significantly. However, I'm aware that I won't be able to do this for much longer and when I start work properly next year I will have very little time to study at all, and the thought of losing all this hard work does fill me with fear.

 

This summer I'm doing Princeton in Beijing, which will probably be the last long-term language course I do, at least for a long time. After interview and essay/speaking sample I've provisionally been placed in level 5 which according to their website is designed to prepare you for advanced research or employment in China-related fields. Hopefully after completing this course I'll have a good foundation to at least maintain as much as I can.

 

My studying has reached a semi-plateau but this is just due to my current time restraints and general willingness to use more of my day studying Chinese. The only approach that I can realistically do is the scatter approach that abcdefg mentioned, which works well enough for my purposes.

 

I don't intend to work in China (at least full time) but there may be opportunities for me to work in a Chinese-language environment later in my career. If I want to do that (which I do!) I'll need to maintain a good level of Chinese as best as I can.