[Re]Starting Hello Chinese blues.

[Lumbering Ox]

I got a few lessons in about a year or so ago and have been trying to get the nerve to restart. I have no other Chinese background.

 

I've just finished the pronunciation section and am kinda freaking out again.

 

I find those initials and finals are easy to tell apart when played side by side but when they go on to be used in words [never mind sentences] I find it very hard to tell apart [was that a dz or ts sound?] Is it my ears, crappy recordings, something that will come in time?

 

There are a few words where they record and mark you. Most of the time I get it right first time [yay me] but there were a few where I repeat the word 20 odd times. I am pretty sure I am saying what they are saying, refer back to the notes. Eventually I get it but I have no idea why that one took and the others don't. Being an app they don't tell you what you did wrong and as far as my ears can tell I nail it. I did find out that recording yourself swearing at it in English gives you a pass. Should I be in a WTF mode over this or meh.

 

I did pass the "exam" for that section first time around and in the past I haven't, so bully for me but I am guessing if it were not for the short cut of using the tones as a clue I wouldn't [Hmmm that's a third tone, must be the one answer with the third tone]

 

I am sure you'll will tell me that All Iz Well and to keep calm and carry on and I guess after that first hour and the resulting headache [literal] I could use a figurative pat on the head and a "There there"

 

If anyone else has gone through the actual app and can provide some feedback that would be double plus swell.

 

 

[Flickserve]

At beginner stages, your ears cannot tell if you 'have nailed it'.

 

what the app does not give you is enough experience of listening. As a beginner, it is like having a hearing impairment. Those people with hearing impairments can have difficulties in repeating words and tones in any language.

 

 

The skill of listening comes with repetitive listening. Now, with an app like hello chinese, you have to through a couple of processes to listen again. This actually wastes quite a lot of time if you need to listen to a sentence two or three hundred times to gain the necessary experience of listening.

 

i wouldn't say give up on the app. I prefer to regard it as an assessment tool of your learning rather than a learning tool per se.

[Lumbering Ox]

 

23 minutes ago, Flickserve said:

i wouldn't say give up on the app. I prefer to regard it as an assessment tool of your learning rather than a learning tool per se

 

I was figuring on using the app to test the waters. To see if I can get a grip on listening and pronunciation issues before going whole hog with the buying of texts et al to get the learning process really going. I'd hate to plunk down the cash only to crash and burn.

I was figuring as they have the record and analyze [to some degree] feature that it would be just what I was looking for.

 

Reading what you wrote above I am wondering if it is the wrong tool for the job, or perhaps the right tool but as long as I am getting through it to not stress out too much if I am struggling after all I did pass the pronunciation exam.

[Guest realmayo]

If the free FSI course is still around you could download it and see what you make of their listening drills: very dry, rigorous, no-nonsense. 

[Flickserve]

2 hours ago, Lumbering Ox said:

To see if I can get a grip on listening and pronunciation issues before going whole hog with the buying of texts et al

 

To be honest, I think you cannot get away with putting some cash down. Most hobbies need some expenditure if you want to scratch past the surface. 

 

if I had my time again from the start, I would have done a lot more listening to short sentences which can be done by your own self on a computer. Just understanding the meaning is good but IMO, not enough. What I  under appreciated as a beginner was the rhythm of a sentence, duration of saying certain words etc. It was after a year and a half slow progress that I decided to drop my lessons and just do intensive listening practice. Something happened because after that, native speakers suddenly started saying I had improved even though I myself, did not feel a difference. 

 

I think those FSI files mentioned before are a good start but at some point through the listening process, you do have to combine the listening with one to one teacher time to assist in speaking. And you don't really need to buy any books at this stage.

 

 

[Lu]

It's not your ears (or rather, it is your ears, namely your ears not being used to these sounds), it will come with practice. You tried for an hour. Well done! Try again tomorrow, and the day after that. This is something that takes practice and more practice. It's normal that you're not getting it right straight away (if it were that easy, there wouldn't be so many apps for it).

 

So in short, as you already guessed: all iz well, keep calm and carry on. You can do this, one bit at the time. Good luck!

[Shelley]

Do you know you can do a more intensive speaking practice for each word? When you are in a speaking section if you are having problems or you just want to practice and consolidate a character, if you long press on any character it will bring up a more intense practice section where you have to get it correct 3 times before you can move on, It gives you marks out of 5, sometimes repeating it a few times gives you that light bulb moment where you realize what is correct and where you have been going wrong. You can do this as many times as you like.

 

Also do you read the notifications? these have short videos containing further explanations and information. These are accessible from the main screen by pressing the little bell top right.

I think HelloChinese is very good, but I don't use it in isolation, I have a text book NCPR, Hanzi Grids for writing and many other tools to help round out my study.

[Lumbering Ox]

I guess I am terrified of being one of those people who study for years only to find out that they still can't speak it.

My father met this guy in Japan from Argentina who previously spent something like 3 years in China and couldn't get anywhere with the language but in a similar time in Japan was able to pick up Japanese [so it isn't sloth or being a dullard] 

 

My intentions are to dip in with HC and if I can swing that then move onto Remembering the Hanzi [RTH] and the texts, pods, one on one, Anki/Pleco etc. Probably start in on  Chairman Bao after HC. I don't mind plinking down cash but I'd rather know there is a future in it. Much like how having the free sample chapters for remembering the Kanji and working through them made the decision to buy the book much easier.

 

10 hours ago, Lu said:

So in short, as you already guessed: all iz well, keep calm and carry on. You can do this, one bit at the time. Good luck!

What is a bit ironic is that All Iz Well is a phrase/song title from a bollywood movie and I gave up on Hindi [OK moved it down my TDL]  because there were 4 d and 4 t sounds that sounded exactly alike to my ear. Pinyin isn't as bad but that dz and ts sound a LOT alike and there are other pairings that are bothersome.

 

 

Is it so bad if one can't tell certain things apart. The former Chinese girlfriend even after 25 years in the Canadas was hard to understand at times, "You are Subban, ohh stubborn", which is funny as there is a hockey player well known by the name of PK Subban. Or from an Indian fellow who kept trying to explain that we was going to Ottava,  took me several tried to figure out he meant Ottawa. But for the most part it works out fine.

 

I have it in my head that it is important to get things right from the start but perhaps I am putting too much stress on myself.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-LltgOtFSg

[imron]

5 hours ago, Lumbering Ox said:

Probably start in on  Chairman Bao after HC. I don't mind plinking down cash but I'd rather know there is a future in it.

I'd consider getting one of the Glossika courses.

[Lu]

13 hours ago, Lumbering Ox said:

I guess I am terrified of being one of those people who study for years only to find out that they still can't speak it.

Such people exist, but it's really too early to tell whether you'll be one of them after only one lesson. Give yourself at least six months to a year of serious effort. You have trouble with the c/z difference, that's absolutely fine. Just note that you find this difficult, and instead of worrying about it, practice it some more (along with moving on to the next step of your studies). Check your progress every few weeks or months, not every day.

 

And Three Idiots was a pretty great movie.

[Flickserve]

15 hours ago, Lumbering Ox said:

 

My intentions are to dip in with HC and if I can swing that then move onto Remembering the Hanzi [RTH] and the texts, pods, one on one, Anki/Pleco etc. Probably start in on  Chairman Bao after HC. I don't mind plinking down cash but I'd rather know there is a future in it.

 

I haven't even got even to thinking that far. LOL. 

 

I rank my purchases in order of usefulness as follows: Skype recording software, online tutorials, example sentences from books, proper textbooks (a few bought and not opened), fluentU.

 

other things that help are free: pleco, anki, VLC, workaudio book, Google translate, spreadsheet. 

[Lumbering Ox]

4 hours ago, Flickserve said:

I haven't even got even to thinking that far. LOL. 

 

I am a bit anal when it comes to planning. Aside from which text book series and what native material to use I pretty much have everything mapped out not only for Chinese but other languages also. Full on native will wait till I get there although I am downloading TV shows and movies now [huzzah for huge modern hard drives!]. For text books I am leaning towards the NPCR as the integrated doesn't seem to go as far and I get the impression that Boya might be a bit more difficult for the self learner based on Amazon comments although it seems it might be worth going through for vocab mining.

 

Of course plans can change based on new information. No need to get all dogmatic. Woof!

 

6 hours ago, Lu said:

And Three Idiots was a pretty great movie.

 

My first Bollywood and still my favorite among the many I've seen since.

[imron]

8 hours ago, Lumbering Ox said:

I pretty much have everything mapped out not only for Chinese but other languages also

One thing to keep in mind, often it easier to spend time planning and organising how to learn a language and so you devote your time to that rather than doing actual study. 

 

It's better to just jump in. Doing something is more effective than planning how to do something. 

[Flickserve]

11 hours ago, Lumbering Ox said:

I pretty much have everything mapped out not only for Chinese but other languages also.

 

So, how have you progressed at other languages? Possible to get to advanced intermediate?

[Lumbering Ox]

2 hours ago, Flickserve said:

So, how have you progressed at other languages? Possible to get to advanced intermediate?

 

I put them on the back burner for various reasons. I have a bad personal history with the French. When I discovered the 4 d and t of Hindi I figured I'd try something different. I did get to over 1900 Kanji on the RTK book but decided Japanese wasn't for me for various non linguistic reasons. I've looked into other languages but they are WAY down the priority list.  If Chinese doesn't work out for me, or if it works out really well, I'll get on them.

 

I spent a few months before starting anything looking into what was available and how to go about learning languages. I felt it was time well spent. I would have gone about it all wrong otherwise. [No SRS, characters without Heiseg, er no]. Spent a lot of time trying to figure out which language to start with. That was difficult, much like the hungry mule between to equally distant hay stacks who starves to death.

 

About 35, 40 years ago I did fail French every second year in school when they had us with a unilateral French speaker and I became hopelessly lost. OTOH the alternate years I was barely hitting 60%. I was not exactly a motivated kid at the time of Quebec referendums and was quite happy to drop the language the moment we moved to a different province. 

 

5 hours ago, imron said:

It's better to just jump in. Doing something is more effective than planning how to do something. 

 

 

The research phase is long over. I just had to work on some mental blockage and other personal issues first. As I mentioned above, no regrets.

What I've learned would probably saved me more time in learning then I spent getting the knowledge. Even this thread has provided with some useful pointers.  But yeah the time for jumping is now. Time to expel feces or get off the pot.

[Wurstmann]

14 hours ago, Lumbering Ox said:

Full on native will wait till I get there although I am downloading TV shows and movies now

 

I think you should start watching right away, so you can get used to the sounds and flow of Chinese. Also, if you watch the same episode every few months, you will get a great sense of how much you have improved.

[Flickserve]

All I can repeat is, do lots of active listening. 

[Lumbering Ox]

9 hours ago, Wurstmann said:

I think you should start watching right away, so you can get used to the sounds and flow of Chinese. Also, if you watch the same episode every few months, you will get a great sense of how much you have improved.

I have been. However I have unlimited downloads so been taking advantage of that.

 

8 hours ago, Flickserve said:

All I can repeat is, do lots of active listening.

Yep, message received and will be acted on.

[Flickserve]

All the best. Keep us updated of your progress.