Teaching Chinese as a Second Language

[jobm]

Hi everyone!

 

I would like to ask which school is the best for 汉语国际教育硕士专业（两年） ? 

 

Since I would like to research on the state of Chinese education in Southeast Asia (especially the Philippines where I am from), do you have any idea which university has the best faculty in this area? 

 

Also, what should I expect on doing this master's degree in terms of my Chinese language skills? I have passed HSK Level 6 and I consider myself an advanced learner of Chinese.

 

Thank you!

[艾墨本]

A Chinese friend, who is currently simultaneously studying TCSOL and TESOL masters in Australia recommended the following schools to me: 南开大学、北京大学、北京语言大学、北京外国语大学。 According to my own research I found 北京师范大学 to be the best. This was seconded by a director of the Chinese program I was studying under at the time. She said that many teachers that teach the 对外汉语 programs at universities (now 汉语国际教育）go to 北师大 to study. 

 

Not a lot of information, but perhaps a jumping-off point for your own research.

[Sharon_Too]

Apart from the university rankings like @艾墨本 mentioned, you can fine tune your choice with a couple of other factors, like you said research about Mandarin in Philippines.

If you "baidu" for academic papers about Philippines and Mandarin, you can get a couple of results showing which universities and professors are doing research in that field. Seems like there are more in Southern China, where there are also more Southeast Asian students. You can also check which universities are partnered with Confucius institutes in Philippines, they should be promoting research and TCSOL in your country.

I'm venturing myself into MTCSOL this September (albeit without bachelor in TCSOL), and also have HSK 6 like you. Assuming that the course is delivered with a majority of Chinese students and that all exams & assignments are not lowered to "foreign student" standards, and that professors do not treat us by double standards, I'd say HSK 6 only is like one just learned how to walk and now trying to run a marathon. Apart from the basic language skills that HSK 6 encompasses, an affinity for understanding dialect accents of older professors, academic Chinese writing and reading skills will also prove important. Extensive reading on how to run an MTCSOL marathon will probably help a bit.

Ideally you could start teaching asap and try to find someone already teaching Mandarin in your country and willing to share his/her teaching experience and guidance. Like I was talking to a new teacher in my local CI, she immediately told me that possessing perfect Chinese skills is not as important as being a "language learning doctor", and being able to diagnose and cure mistake trends. For example, many middle aged learners of Chinese descent are facing difficulties because they mix the pronunciation with their Hakka dialect. Now, wouldn't proficiency in Hakka be a great advantage for me to explain Mandarin-hakka pronunciation patterns...? I doubt they teach that in MTCSOL but I guess it would pop up in 方言对第二语言习得的影响... Same reasoning with how my knowledge of French/Creole can help Mauritians pronounce certain words (which is out of reach for Hanban's short term 汉语志愿者), which is the whole point of Confucius Institute Scholarship financing foreigners to become 本土汉语老师.

So you see, it's all about using MTCSOL and what it offers to our advantage. As I said before, we need to learn a whole bucket to decently teach a drop of Chinese, and right now looks like we've got 6 drops... Now it's also our (future) job to make the drops taste simple and sweet... Hmm... Time to be resourceful and creative...

PS Try asking your 老乡 @crisgee  who works at a CI in Philippines, I'm sure he must have way more relevant and specific information for you.

Sorry for being 啰嗦... Cheers and add oil！

[jobm]

@Ai Moben 北京师范大学 is actually one of the schools I am eyeing to, whether it be a TCSOL degree or a 汉语言文字学 degree.. But now, I am choosing to just do a TCSOL degree since I think the TCSOL is much more equipped with foreigners doing degrees in China. Oh, the horror stories of doing an MA in China... My dream school in China is really 北大, I really want to go to this school but their admission process is kinda hard. Like, they are going to accept only 15 students with scholarship in their TCSOL degree program. Ouch!

 

@Sharon_Too Hahahaha whenever I hear the term 啰嗦, I remember the female lead in 流星花园 LOL. Actually, I have been a 家庭教师 on the side with my current work as a Mandarin fulfillment associate (my job is to process orders from the sales team and I handle the China accounts) and I second what you have just said that being a good second language speaker of any language does not equate to being a good teacher of that language. Teaching a foreign language is another skill. Yes, HSK 6 is not enough, but I guess, we can still manage to go to class just like me attending some business meetings in Chinese with my HK and BJ colleagues haha, we just need to practice primarily writing and reading. I am super excited on your new journey! I hope everything will be well and you will have a good experience in China in doing your MA. Which university will you be going to? Yes, actually, I know @crisgee, haha, such a small world here in Manila LOL. And as far as I know, their CI's partner university is Sun Yat Sen University 中山大学. I have heard one of the professors in Sun Yat Sen has done research in the teaching of Chinese here in our country, making me to consider going there. Actually, I want to learn Cantonese (I have fallen in love with the sounds of it), but what make me have second thoughts to go to Guangzhou are 1. I have studied in Dalian and I kinda have a Northern Chinese accent to the point that when I was in a trip in Xiamen, the locals thought I was Chinese but when they heard me speaking, they automatically thought that I was not from their place but from somewhere in the North haha. And, talking to my HK boss everyday via Skype who is a native speaker of Cantonese, I can really say that we speak kinda differently but we could still understand each other anyway. So maybe, if I study in the South, I will have a hybrid Mandarin :O I just want to be consistent in the kind of Mandarin I speak. Imagine someone who studied in the States but will be living in the UK, I think there is a higher possibility of that person to acquire both varieties.  2. I really love Beijing and I want to go back there huhu but I do not think professors there have done research on Southeast Asia. 3. Actually, if you want to succeed in the Chinese community here, you should learn Hokkien so maybe Xiamen Univ is a better choice but I actually did not like Xiamen that much.   Let's see where my fate would lead me to. My top 3 choices would be 北大、北师大、and 中山大学 though.

 

P.S. I have also met someone from Mauritius when I was studying in Dalian  

 

[Angelina]

I finally discovered why the whole thing with lowering standards for foreigners is happening.

There are agents getting international students admitted. I am not sure if those students would otherwise be able to study here. These agents are more likely to work with programs where only international students are attending, special degrees for foreigners. You should be careful when choosing a special degree.

A regular degree, where your classmates are Chinese students who did well on the 高考 or 考研、考博, is a much safer option than a program for international students only, where there might be illegal agents taking advantage of students from countries with few opportunities to study. 

 

Why would an MA be worse than a BA？I did encounter certain difficulties during my MA (Linguistics and Applied Linguistics), for example, problems with academic writing and inadequate funding. However, one bachelor's degree student at the Department of Chinese at Peking University did confirm he did not have enough support when it comes to academic writing too. @BanZhiYun

 

I am confused by your first post and your reply later. Are you asking for good MTCSOL degrees or you have already decided on something else? 

 

Let's keep this thread on MTCSOL degrees 汉语国际教育.

What schools have excellent master's degree programs for teaching Chinese? 

Do you need a thread on what are the best degrees, no matter at what level or department or even country, for those who want to work as teachers of Chinese? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sharon_Too]

Hmm I bet you know a lot of traditional characters from taiwan drama. 

@jobm I'm going to East China Normal Uni in Shanghai, whose ranking and 师资力量 is not bad. Having studied in Jiangsu for 5 years, I feel more comfortable (plenty of old friends here too) continuing my studies in the same region. That's great, actually 中山大学 was my second choice in Confucius Scholarship although SYSU really is a better uni than ECNU in terms of research and from feedback I got from a SYSU MTCSOL alumni, Sara @xuefang. Her dean of faculty is actually a legend in 对外汉语教学，周小兵教授，whose 《对外汉语教学入门》is like a bible for MTCSOL students.

I love northeastern accent, sounds nicer than Shanghainese accent.

Oh wow maybe I know your Mauritian friend, admittedly Mauritius is way smaller than Manilla haha. 

[Angelina]

This is a good idea. Would teaching Chinese to students who are already multilingual, as many of your students will be in Mauritius and the Philippines be different from teaching Chinese to students who can speak only one language? Will it make teaching easier or more difficult?

 

What program is the best to attended? 

 

You are right about feedback, it is important to find a good program, and look at the quality of a university, program, professor. I think UPenn is a good place to get a degree in Chinese if you want to do your homework/research in English. Yet, if you have already decided to focus on teaching the language, you might not find any scholars there working on Chinese language pedagogy. Therefore, looking for a program that is a good fit for you might be better than looking for a good program. I do believe in absolute quality, but looking for the absolute best might make it difficult for you to decide. 

 

 

[jobm]

@Angelina Hmm, I think for lowering the standards towards foreigners, I think it also comes to the culture? I mean for example, in my home university, there are also foreign students but sometimes, my teachers also adjust to them. It is not that they think that foreign students are not intelligent, it is just I think sometimes, you could not just judge a local student with the foreign student using the same criteria. For example, in an English class in our university, of course, you could see differences in a way a foreign student writes and a local student writes. Also, since the teacher is also a local, he/she kinda has a bias towards the writing of his/her local students. If the way he/she will judge the papers of his/her local students will be the same with the foreign students, I think it is somewhat unfair for the foreign student. Another example, in one of my classes (which is about our country's history), there are required readings which will be very hard for foreign students. My teacher has had a Japanese student, and she kinda made things easier to that Japanese student of hers because she just can't expect the foreigner to understand everything because what she is teaching is highly cultural-based and is largely based on our country's setting which requires more effort for the foreigner to fully understand. I know, education should be of quality and of high standards and this thing happening to foreign students in China may only produce mediocre students, but I think, if we foreigners would still insist to have the same standards as the locals, we should work hard more and do not expect for spoon feeding. Honestly speaking, I have studied college in my home country but never did I get any help from my professors how should I write (unless it was a writing/my thesis class), i.e. what preposition should I use, how should I structure my writing, etc. I think academic writing is our own responsibility and what is expected from us as students. And I think, no one gets good in writing in a night or so. As what my teachers also believe in, a good writer is a wide reader. Read, read, read, only then we could be good at writing. 

 

For some English programs, I agree that some of these programs are to attract foreigners and in a way to get money from us. But, I think, if you want to study in English, just go to an English-speaking country? I think we should 入乡随俗. You are in China. You are someone from the outside. Learn to adapt. Studying in English in China is actually a privilege and more of an extra effort from Chinese universities which greatly operate in Chinese. Hence, they demand more financially speaking. They need English speaking teachers, English courses, English resources and materials, and these are very costly especially here in Asia where English has prestige. 

 

In the end, I think, whether a degree program is suitable for someone and how much someone could get from studying in China are really dependent on the person. Yes, the educational system of China badly needs reform. In my opinion, foreign students should be fully informed of the consequences and what should they expect in studying in China, not only the hype, excitement, and utopia-like feeling of studying in China to avoid all these problems arising.

 

@Sharon_Too I learn my traditional characters from songs and dramas in Taiwan lol. Oh, if I remember, John Pasden http://www.sinosplice.com/ also has studied in that university. I have also heard about 周小兵 and I heard that he had already had some talks here in Manila (in the CI here) but unfortunately, I was not able to attend even one  It seems one of his talks focused about the state of Chinese education here in the Philippines. 

 

I think Shanghainese accent is so fast, isn't it? I really get startled when I watch a Shanghainese speak Mandarin (oh you should watch the first season of 奇葩说, well they are all fast speakers but the one from Shanghai really talks fast; watch also videos of 薛之谦, a pop singer from Shanghai also. He also speaks very fast haha)

 

Oh, his name is Jason Li  Maybe you know him?

 

 

Hmm, I think it is easier to teach Filipinos another foreign language but the Chinese language education here especially in basic education is really bad. Too much rote learning. They learn the characters, they know how to read. But comparing with other Southeast Asians, Filipinos who studied in Chinese schools for like 10 years still lack good oral skills in Mandarin Chinese. This is actually why I want to study TCSOL, to improve the Chinese education in our country. 

 

When it comes to programs, as what @Sharon_Too has mentioned, southern Chinese universities have more researches on Chinese language pedagogy in Southeast Asia. Yeah, true, there are too much things to consider in studying overseas. Sigh. 

 

I have talked too much this afternoon. LOL.

 

 

[crisgee]

Hello @jobm! Nice to see you around here!

[jobm]

Yes, Sir @crisgee 

[igacave]

 

When it comes to choosing Uni, I would stick to 师范大学, cause from my personal experiance they  know how to teach. I would translate this shifan as "pedagogical".

 

I studied for a year in 南京师范大学. For Chinese standards I think classes were pretty great.

We had people from very famous, very prestigeous uni coming to our classes. My point is that if you want to study in a city that is in some way close to your heart I would choose Shifan one, cause the chance of having a good classes is higher.

 

And what in you study in the best Uni that is great when it comes to economy, but simply sucks when it comes to teaching? 

 

Do you have similar view? 

[imron]

4 hours ago, igacave said:

I would translate this shifan as "pedagogical".

They unfortunately translate it as "normal", so you have Beijing Normal University which causes most native English speakers to do a double take and wonder about the abnormal universities.

[lips]

French: école normale.