Fred0 Posted July 18, 2017 at 05:10 PM Report Posted July 18, 2017 at 05:10 PM In this sentence a salesman has just made a sale in which he has given the buyer a good deal. He hangs his head dispirited (垂头丧气)and says “唉!谁让今儿个没开张哪!” I understand that 今儿个 is colloquial for "today," and 开张 here means "first sale of the day." The translation is "What can I do? This is my first deal today." I would like to understand how it is that this is what this sentence is saying. It seems to me that there is something to learn here. Thanks. Quote
Publius Posted July 18, 2017 at 05:19 PM Report Posted July 18, 2017 at 05:19 PM He hasn't made a sale today, so he will accept a lower price than usual, is what he means. He's giving himself an excuse: less money is better than no money. Quote
Fred0 Posted July 18, 2017 at 05:46 PM Author Report Posted July 18, 2017 at 05:46 PM Yes, I understand that, but what I don't understand is how these characters express that idea. 谁让 - who causes 今儿个 today's 没开张 not first sale 哪 which. Do you see my problem? Quote
Publius Posted July 18, 2017 at 06:27 PM Report Posted July 18, 2017 at 06:27 PM I see. The problem is 誰讓. 哪 is just a 語氣助詞(modal particle) like 嗎/啊/呢 that has no direct translation. I don't know if I can explain it properly. Maybe you should just treat 誰讓+phrase as an idiom. The meaning probably developed along the line of "who is to blame that... / it's nobody's fault that..." An example: 誰讓我是你女朋友呢 -- Don't complain, coz I'm your girlfriend. Or I can't complain, coz I'm your girlfriend. Yeah, I know it's not satisfactory. I'll try and see if I can find a better explanation. 2 Quote
Fred0 Posted July 18, 2017 at 06:43 PM Author Report Posted July 18, 2017 at 06:43 PM Thanks. That's definitely a help. The only remaining problem is 没. Is 没 coupled with 谁让 in some way? Or is it to make the sentence a rhetorical question similar to "isn't it" (the first sale) ? Quote
陳德聰 Posted July 18, 2017 at 08:18 PM Report Posted July 18, 2017 at 08:18 PM I like the explanation here: http://www.faqoverflow.com/chinese/2250.html "expresses weak causality with a mood" In this case, the reason he is giving a deal is that "今天都沒開帳", and he's sighing about it. There is no need to connect 沒 or any negative item with 誰讓. 1 Quote
Fred0 Posted July 18, 2017 at 08:49 PM Author Report Posted July 18, 2017 at 08:49 PM Great help! Thanks to both of you. Quote
somethingfunny Posted July 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM Report Posted July 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM Would it not be appropriate to interpret this as a rhetorical question? OP example: "Fine, I'll take the deal. Who made it so that I still hadn't made a sale today?" Publius example: "Yeah, I'll do it, but who made you my girlfriend again?" 陈德聪 linked example: "I have to do what you say, but who mad you boss anyway?" In my mind it's definitely a complaining tone of voice. 1 Quote
Publius Posted July 19, 2017 at 02:04 PM Report Posted July 19, 2017 at 02:04 PM Yes it's rhetorical. But the tone can be varied depending on the context. For example, resignation in OP's example. Teasing/dismissive, as in 誰讓你不聽老人言呢,吃虧了吧? or in one usage of my example, 我當然有權管你了!誰讓我是你女朋友呢? And to answer Fred0's question, the syntax is 誰讓 + phrase. The phrase is a factual statement 今儿个没开张, 沒 simply means 'hasn't' and is not linked with 誰讓. This fact (I hasn't made a sale today) is cited as a reason, but the causality is rather weak as pointed out in 陳德聰's link. 1 Quote
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