陳德聰 Posted July 31, 2017 at 07:50 PM Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 at 07:50 PM You have the right character for what you want. I thought you meant grace as in some sort of religious gratitude-related idea, but it turns out you were going for grace as in elegance which 雅 is right for There are different stroke orders for this character but from the looks of it, the "dot" on that right hand side part, top of 隹, slides down to the left in preparation of the first horizontal line. Then the vertical. Then the three remaining horizontal lines, which is why the top horizontal line doesn't have any look of dragging the ink down towards the next horizontal. Does that make sense? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
889 Posted August 1, 2017 at 12:22 AM Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 at 12:22 AM 谢 is not a very graceful character, especially in simplified form and even more so in that sharp-angled font you've posted, which reeks of official government style. I wouldn't use it. I haven't a specific alternative, except to point out that in China, using traditional set-piece expressions is most common: there's no need to be original or creative. Indeed, trying to be creative can come across as a bit odd, unless you're a very talented Chinese writer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted August 1, 2017 at 10:07 AM Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 at 10:07 AM I have to agree with 889, using a simplified character is not a good thing in art, and as I said earlier it is not usual to use the word thank you in art. If you are making it to say thank you to someone then the act of making and giving it says thank you, no need to actually write it on the piece. Maybe say thank you and more in a card or note that you can include with the item. I would also spend some time looking at chinese art and characters to familiarise your self with the style and feel. One of my favourite books is The Grammar of Chinese Ornament. As the title says it shows the things that make chinese art chinese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Lee Posted August 1, 2017 at 03:42 PM Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 at 03:42 PM Thank you - I guses that leads me to new questions. Ultimately, my goal is for the main carving on the front to be "beauty" and above that is a boarder that repeats "thank you" (the obverse will say "grace"). The Chinese characters for "beauty, grave and thank you" were not too difficult to find (although I might not have the right grace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted August 1, 2017 at 04:57 PM Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 at 04:57 PM 1 hour ago, Cherie Lee said: I might not have the right grace You have the right grace! It might make it more work for you but I think 千恩萬謝 is a good "thank you". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Lee Posted August 2, 2017 at 11:37 AM Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 at 11:37 AM All of this wonderful input has me changing directions all over the place! I'm not sure now WHAT would be appropriate, especially on the "thank you" part. [but I think 千恩萬謝 is a good "thank you"] - I don't think I've come across this stream of characters for thank you so far, so naturally I don't understand the difference between that and the one I *thought* I might use. ( I must be learning *something though, since I'm starting to recognize some! ). Every culture has many ways of saying thank you, from very casual to very formal. The wrong usage can make the piece clumsy no matter how well done. Like a child speaking among adults! The idea has also been mentioned that it shouldn't be used at all, causing an effect more like, "look at the well executed but tacky piece that silly American Girl did" (paraphrasing, of course). Since I was experimenting *before* reading the posts, why don't I start by showing that, then I can explain the purpose of the piece and that might help determine proper usage, if at all. I do not care about the amount of work, just that the work is well placed. So, test pieces first... The calligraphy one would work best only if it was the main carve, as opposed to a repeated supporting element (too delecate) The traditional (government-y looking) one I could do with no problem (with some liberties keeping sections connected) Question is, should I? Background: I took a little adult-school tai-chi class for a few weeks. When the class ended, the teacher offered to continue teaching me free of charge. I honestly thought it was some kind of come-on or something, but as time went on it really has become a very close and strong bond that neither of us expected. Talk of the grace and beauty of tai chi became talk of the beauty and grace we saw in each other. To the point of becoming a joke (just a slight stumble when walking will bring the taunt, "oh very graceful" - you get the idea). The point is: HE is beautiful. HE is graceful. And he is *giving* that to me, for no other reason than because I *saw* that, and wanted it. This is me saying, quite literally, "thank you for your grace and beauty", because it was those two qualities of his that has made my world a more harmonious place. If I leave out the words "thank you", that kind of leaves two random nouns with no context. The piece isn't a celebration of grace and beauty itself, but of HIS grace and beauty. It might not be a chinese question, per se, but you've all been here with me this far! And some fresh perspectives of how to convey that could go a long way. If you've shown be anything so far it's that I attempted to 'speak' before i knew how to say what I wanted said! 《Whew》that was exhausting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted August 2, 2017 at 12:02 PM Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 at 12:02 PM I think that in your situation it might not be too awkward if you wanted to say thank you. May I suggest that in a smaller font around the top you carve in bias relief and not through the shell, something along the lines of "Thank you for your " and then as the big panels " Beauty" and "Grace" If you work it out well, the thank you.... round the top would make a nice border all the way round the top. The reason I think it wouldn't be too bad is because people will understand and appreciate your efforts, you are not entering into some competition or as an exam piece so it is not going to be scrutinised to the finest degree and the person you are giving it to will not expect you to be well versed in chinese art form and calligraphy and if they are as nice, graceful and beautiful as you say then he will respond in that manner. The only concession I suggest you make to respect chinese art and calligraphy is to use traditional characters. If you search the internet you will probably find traditional version that will work well as carved forms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Lee Posted August 2, 2017 at 05:29 PM Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 at 05:29 PM 《May I suggest that in a smaller font around the top....something along the lines of "Thank you for your " and then as the big panels " Beauty" and "Grace" 》 Shelley, that was PRECISELY what my original concept was, but while I could find "thank you" etc, for the luge of me I could not figure out the simple "...for your..." part! To me, that is exactly the sentiment I feel "thank you for your grace. Thank you for your beauty". That is how I feel, but can't seem to nail down what the characters would be. 《 thank you.... round the top would make a nice border all the way round the top.》 Yes! That's the idea! So I'll still just need to figure out how to write "...for your...", which will only be used twice: once below the thank you boarder but above the beauty, and once below the thank you boarder but above the grace. Lastly, and most fortunately, no scrutiny at all! (Though I *would* like it to stand up to a *little* on its own! ) and I have every reason it will be received very well. He doesn't even know what I do, so it'll be a strange surprise no matter what! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Posted August 3, 2017 at 07:21 AM Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 at 07:21 AM I'd say 謝謝你的雅，謝謝你的美, and I hope Chen Decong can correct me if there's a better way to say this. 你的 literally means 'your', but this sentence is how I'd say 'thank you for your etc' in Chinese. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Lee Posted August 3, 2017 at 12:54 PM Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 at 12:54 PM I'm getting excited. Tell you what, if Chen Decong can confirm Lu's opinion I would feel very comfortable indeed putting drill to egg. That will be the body of the piece, and Shelley's book recommendation will guide me on the filler detail. I will be thrilled to begin (more importantly: finish! ) with at least SOME sense of it being. ..less amateur?! Thank you all, and please do weigh in on this final puzzle piece! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted August 3, 2017 at 11:10 PM Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 at 11:10 PM 謝謝你的美，謝謝你的雅 is correct, but 謝謝謝謝 謝你的謝 謝 美 謝 謝謝謝謝 or something like that, would indeed look a bit bizarre. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Lee Posted August 3, 2017 at 11:23 PM Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 at 11:23 PM Hi 陳德聰, thank you for your valued input. I do see what you are saying, and I'm hoping the layout I'm considering and the roundness of the medium might still work. If no one minds here I'd like to post the fully laid-out egg before I start for one last check to see if it does work. I have one last thought on fonts however. It occurred to me that he was in school as a boy in Hong Kong, born in 1952 and too America at age 15 (currently 65). So am I correct that even simplified Chinese would be difficult to understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Posted August 4, 2017 at 01:28 PM Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 at 01:28 PM Chinese has two sets of characters: simplified and traditional. SImplified is used in China (mainland China), traditional in Hong Kong and Taiwan. You can find a bunch of examples of the differences on Wikipedia. Since your teacher is from Hong Kong, he would be more familiar with traditional. In addition, traditional is usually more suitable for any artistic use, as it is generally considered more beautiful than simplified. So in your case, traditional is the way to go. Also, 陳德聰 = Chen Decong, I realised belatedly that this may have been confusing :-) Looking forward to seeing your design! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Lee Posted August 5, 2017 at 08:40 PM Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 at 08:40 PM Hi Lu, thank you for all of your help on this. I'm honored that such good people genuinely wish to share their time and knowledge - two of the most precious gifts we have. I was very appreciative when you first wrote "Chen Decon", because I knew early on I valued his opinion, and sadly until then I had to think of the poor man as "B" (the closest association I had)! Not knowing proper protocol, I was unsure which to use, but to my mind, the actual name would be 陳德聰, which I can now think of (meaning mentally pronounce! ) as "Chen Decon"..... sooo much better than "B"! 《I'm **so sorry 陳德聰!!! Please be smiling and not frowning right now at my innocent ignorance!! 》 The guidance here has been so valued that in my excitement I neglected to do a test carve for "grace" after finally confirming the proper character choice! So logically then I need to do that first in hopes the incredible assistance here can improve on my calligraphy (I'm looking at you, 陳德聰! winkwink). I have guests for the weekend so I must be patient! I don't know how names and translations all work, I'm sure it could be complex, but if my niece's name was Grace, would she in theory use the literal symbol as her 'name'? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted August 5, 2017 at 10:11 PM Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 at 10:11 PM I enjoy reading your posts. Your niece could use the character for 'grace' in her name but she'd need a surname to go with it. Most often people have two characters in their given name which come after their surname, but it's also not uncommon to just have one character for a given name. One of my best friends' given name is 思雅, but naturally she is both clumsy and the endearing kind of 呆. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Lee Posted August 10, 2017 at 11:14 PM Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 at 11:14 PM On 8/5/2017 at 6:11 PM, 陳德聰 said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Lee Posted August 10, 2017 at 11:25 PM Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 at 11:25 PM Ok all you happy people it's been a hectic week, but we have to keep plugging away, so I tried to bang this one out so I can at least get a bit of input from those I value most (nudge nudge). It should be easier to read than the first one I posted, since we've at least been talking about the character. Now is time to see if I did this one any justice at all! I think I see a spot or two that might be off enough to give pause, but....I'd sure feel better saying that if I, oh you know, read ANY Chinese, or something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted August 10, 2017 at 11:48 PM Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 at 11:48 PM I think it looks beautiful, so delicate and finely done. The calligraphy looks fine, but I am not an expert, however I think it is very well executed. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lips Posted August 10, 2017 at 11:52 PM Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 at 11:52 PM Very nice. To be more consistent style-wise, you may want to change the horizontal strokes of the right side to something like the part circled below. The other parts of your character are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofmann Posted August 11, 2017 at 02:13 AM Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 at 02:13 AM I recommend you take the red part out. It implies a rather unnatural direction change after this stroke. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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