Is this legible?

[lips]

33 minutes ago, Hofmann said:

I recommend you take the red part out. It implies a rather unnatural direction change after this stroke.

Good observation.  I would also make the bottom part of the stroke circled below more to the left so that it links (through the air) to the beginning of the first horizontal stroke below.

[陳德聰]

In addition to the other comments, I'd add that the purple circles below are where I feel there's a kind of excess "loopiness" to what is in reality supposed to just be the brush exiting the paper on its way to the next stroke, rather than a flourish.

 

The green/blue is based on the stroke order you posted before, showing that the top dot kind of spills into the next stroke, and then the vertical, followed by the remaining horizontals. Your version has an almost overly rigid last three strokes considering you've done the rest of the stroke in a very flowy-er style.

 

Edit: uh oh... actually I am realising the one you went off of does go from the dot directly into the vertical as Hofmann suggests... :/ 

[lips]

24 minutes ago, 陳德聰 said:

go from the dot directly into the vertical

An uncommon stroke order.

[陳德聰]

Not that uncommon in calligraphy though.

[Lu]

I disagree with Hofmann on that dot. Isn't that part of the character 點 橫橫橫 竪 橫? In that case, the dot goes to the first horizontal line, just as OP made it.

But then, I'm not a calligraphist.

 

I agree with the other comments, but would like to note that these comments can serve to further perfect something that is already very good. It looks amazing, stroke order and all.

[roddy]

While the above is all correct and valuable, it looks great and you're more than entitled to rest on your laurels...

[lips]

21 minutes ago, Lu said:

the dot goes to the first horizontal line, just as OP made it

I think what @Hofmann meant was the ending of the dot in OP's picture goes a little bit to the *right*, while the beginning of the next stroke was at the *left* of the dot.  That's why he took off a little bit of the left side of the bottom of the dot.  My point was that with the change, the dot looked like that it was going straight down to the vertical stroke (which was also pointed out by @陳德聰). In most brush calligraphic rendition of this particular component in kaishu （楷书）or xingshu （行书), the stroke order was as you stated: dot followed by the first horizontal stroke. So, to follow the common stroke order, the end of the dot should go a little to the left.

 

Sometimes in xingshu, the dot is combined with the vertical stroke, but it is not the case here.

[lips]

2 hours ago, 陳德聰 said:

Your version has an almost overly rigid last three strokes considering you've done the rest of the stroke in a very flowy-er style

This nails it on the head.

I do think that the OP's picture already looks very nice.  That's more the reason to make it look like real brush calligraphy. 

[Hofmann]

It was to eliminate the pause before the next stroke, whichever one it is, in the existing work. If you were to make it again, I recommend copying the image in lips's post https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/54650-is-this-legible/?do=findComment&comment=422047. 

[Cherie Lee]

Oh boy!   That's why I love it here! 

 

Ok - so - I agree the loopiness of the left and middle sections can be toned down - that should be easy enough, so I'll take care of that. 

 

The right-side components were *definately* too stiff.   Ironically I think this was part over-correction on my part,  (I'll get into this next), and part just my misunderstanding of the characters themselves (gee...lack of basic knowledge is an impediment?  Who knew? )

 

So when I first posted my attempt at "beauty", 陳德聰 wisely and kindly showed me the light.  Since it's just a 'sketch carving' I did attempt to put in the corrections he suggested (here's how *that exercise went:  )

I know it's a little shakey, but I couldn't put back the parts I'd  already taken too much from the first go round!   (But did it even help here?  I know it will on the fresh start)

 

So I think I was erroneously attempting to put that same correction to the right-most component of this version of "grace".  But now I'm thinking I based that on my misunderstanding of the character *structure* itself.  I feel I almost reversed the two words' "build"

 

Again, correction after the fact is minimal at best,  but I think I am *supposed* to have swoopier, more zig-zaggy horizontal strokes here (as opposed to "beauty",where I initially went *too* zig-zaggy)?  Does that all sound right?   Here's how *that* part went:

I also tried to address that top right dot,  but I was too nervous to remove it from *this particular character, being so unclear what that would do to its meaning. 

 

But,  Lips, I was liking the version you posted much more.   Is it still the same word/meaning?   I would like to try that one even more so  I think.   Can I ask you to post that without the red indicator?   I thank you for taking the time,  but when I saw it I liked yours more right away, all things being equal. (Nothing like challenging myself on those swoopy bits,  huh 陳德聰?!)

 

You all have been beyond helpful.   Thank you (and please don't leave me now!!!)

 

[lips]

[Cherie Lee]

Sweet, thank you.  Is the difference here just a matter of the calligraphers style?   It seems pretty substantially different

[陳德聰]

Style and stroke order are different but I find it aesthetically pleasing and no meaning difference

 

Also your pieces are beautiful. Noticeable difference on your edits, you're on the right track.

[Cherie Lee]

I can't tell you how much that means.   I will try Lip's version next.  Hope to post soon, but here I am staring down another busy weekend  (Wonder who'll won this time!)

 

[Lu]

23 minutes ago, 陳德聰 said:

Also your pieces are beautiful.

Couldn't agree more. Holy shit, even apart from the amazing skill: the sheer patience of carving something as brittle as an eggshell, to that degree of precision, into swirls that you don't even know the meaning of. (And then have a forum of strangers tell you that you got the swirls juuuust wrong. And then to carve the egg some more.)

 

Also, the vertical line on that 美 (beauty) looks notably better.

[Cherie Lee]

Thank you all so much for the kind words.  It absolutely helps keep me motivated.   There are always so many reasons to stall out (which is usually lethal to a piece) ***

 

In truth,  it's the delicate nature of the work that makes me want to aim as high as I can on the accuracy scale.   Even the most amazing execution of a flawed character will always be nothing more than flawed.  In fact,  the skill of one would highlight the immaturity of the other.

Now,  of *course* I hold no allusions what-so-ever that I could ever compare to a true calligrapher,  (or even pass for Chinese literate!) but I sure wouldn't mind making one raise their eyebrows a bit!   Lol

 

As I get closer to nailing down the main body,  I start to think more of the supporting artwork.   

There are a selection of words that I might like to work in.  They would be smaller and more incorporated into elements such as boarders etc.  So I would have lots of wiggle room in style, depending on how I used what. 

Maybe if you each suggested which character you would use for them, I might be able to build up a mini library to select from as I go.  Since most of them are nouns I don't *think* sentence context would matter. If I'm mistaken please let me know.

Secondary Word options:

Forest

Sky

Ocean

Land

House

Us

Summer

Abundant

 

***true confession - your encouragement over these nearly throw away pieces has me both very excited for when I can unveil the completed piece, and terrified that it doesn't make it the first time!   I rarely attempt a piece twice, and I have never had so much time and research vested before I even began (makes beginning ready to delay - I refer you to sentence 3 of this post! )

 

But in all sincerity, you are making it worthwhile, and that is golden

 

[陳德聰]

Forest 森

Sky 天

Ocean 海

Land 地

House 屋 <- I would find this a bit weird. I'm sure it's some kind of reference to experiences you hold with the recipient of the gift but I don't know if I would feel it's an aesthetic word

Us 吾 <- This is not an ideal translation, the more common word for "us" is two characters long, this one is a more archaic literary character that can mean both "I" and "we". Also same concern as above, it is not really an artful word

Summer 夏

Abundant 豐

 

That being said I love the imagery of 森天海地**夏豐 or 夏豐**

[Cherie Lee]

陳德聰, would "home" be a more pleasing choice than 'house' (or even different)?  

Or how about "couple" instead of 'us'?

Your sense of aesthetics is much better than mine

[lips]

The "beauty" character is beautiful  and artistic.

 

Just some calligraphic points that you might consider:

 

- The left side and right side of each of the three horizontal strokes should line up, so that it doesn't look like two separate strokes.  The spots are marked in the picture below.

 

- In the picture below, the top dot was changed so that it looks like it's going towards the left, to continue to the next stroke, instead of straight down.

 

- Usually the last stroke (bottom right corner) is longer (see picture in @Shelley's earlier post.).  So instead of ending the stroke, you might want to let it continue to the side, to give the impression that it is longer.  This would balance out the loop at the bottom left, and give more stability to the character.

 

- I marked the little nick on the first horizontal stroke.

 

Regardless, your work is very impressive.  Only a true artist could have produced such work without any knowledge of Chinese characters.

 

BTW, the character for "grace" posted above was a commercial font sample, and you should handle it accordingly.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cherie Lee]

Lips thank you, these are exactly the tweaks needed to polish these characters.  It really would be so cool to pull it off enough to impress the natives, so to speak! 

I really appreciate the tip on extending the last stroke.  The short stop stunted the fluidity *and* off-set the balance.  Perfect example of why extra eyes are so valuable:  i'm so caught up in the minutiae that I couldn't see the whole structure weakness! 

I *think* 陳德聰 set me right on my understanding of the three horizontal lines, but are you saying there is something I can do to improve that top dot? 

 

I actually jumped on to see if i could impose upon you once again Lips.  The character you last sent me is the one I'd like to try next,  but I think 陳德聰 made me understand that stroke order shows even in this form, so I was wondering if you would attempt to demonstrate that for me on this one ("no corrections needed" is my constant but unobtainable goal)