my questions

[pitanje]

hey guys, I'm new to these forums. I am from germany and have been studying chinese for a year or so now, with some breaks. I study all on my own, so I have no teacher whom I could ask any questions, so I thought I might just try these forums and because this one seems to be more active than the german ones, I came here. For my studies I use a book series called "Unvergessliches Chinesisch", which includes topics ranging from HSK 1 to 2. The questions I have so far:

 

for 去年，这里是食堂

is it also possible to say  去年，食堂在这里了

?

 

and to say: "he came to the office with a taxi" can I say

他坐出租车去办公室了。

?

in the book it sais

他是坐出租车去办公室。

I don't understand why they use 是 in this case.

 

Also, I have difficulties defining whether an action is finished or not to determine whether I have to put 了 after the verb or at the end of a sentence.

I hope you guys can help me

 

[Guest123]

去年，这里是食堂 means there was a cantten last year, this place was a canteen (now it is something different)

去年，食堂在这里 would mean canteen wan there, but now it disappeared...

去年，食堂在这里了 means las year  canteen wan already there, it appeared last year

他坐出租车去办公室了 does not mean he come to the office, it means he went to the office, for ex. if someon looks for him at home, you can say he has already left for the office

For usage of 的

https://resources.allsetlearning.com/gramwiki/?title=Using_the_"shi..._de"_construction&redirect=no

 

了 means accplished action or situatyion change... it is a very wast auestion. Some hints:

https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Change_of_state_with_"le" 

 

[Publius]

17 hours ago, pitanje said:

for 去年，这里是食堂

is it also possible to say  去年，食堂在这里了

No, you can't.

去年，这里是食堂 = This place was a canteen last year. (The implication is that now it no longer is.)

这里 is the topic, or what we are talking about. We are interested in what this place was/is used for, not where the canteen was/is located. Also, your use of 了 is wrong (will explain later).

 

17 hours ago, pitanje said:

他是坐出租车去办公室。

I don't understand why they use 是 in this case.

是 puts the focus on the element immediately following it (here the means of transportation).

他是坐出租车去办公室 = It is by taxi that he went to the office.

The sentence with 是 is explanatory, while the sentence without 是 is narrative.

For more details about this usage, see https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Using_the_"shi..._de"_construction

 

And about 了. Unlike many languages, Chinese does not mark verb with tenses (past, present, future, etc). The time when an action takes place is expressed by temporal adverbs or deduced from context. On the other hand, Chinese has a rich aspect system (ongoing, finished, experienced, tentative, etc).

Combined with an action verb, 了 marks the action as complete at the point of reference. The English equivalent is 'has/have/had done'. The action took place in the past, but it is the effect on the present that we are focusing on. For example, what 他坐出租车去办公室了 really means is that he is not here.

But 在 is a stative verb. It means existed or exists or will exist. It expresses a state, not an action or event, so there is no point of completion, in other words, it doesn't need a 了 to make it past tense, and what's more, we do not use tenses.

However, if you want to express a change of state, 了 can be used, because the changing has a point where it's complete. If you want to say 'The canteen was already here last year' then it's 去年食堂就在这里了, which also implies it had not been here until last year. If you want to say 'The canteen is not here any more' then it's 食堂已经不在这里了, which implies it was here at some point, but has since been relocated.

[MaLei]

18 hours ago, pitanje said:

他是坐出租车去办公室。

I don't understand why they use 是 in this case.

This sentence is in the past. In Chinese, there is the 是。。。的 form of expressing an action that occurred and was completed in the past

EX: 我是在德国毕业的。I graduated in Germany

I Took this lesson years ago. Let me go search my textbooks for more info

Hope this helps

[Shelley]

There is lots of good grammar information here https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/

Worth bookmarking for all the useful help it has.

[Minotaur]

I don't really think 是...的 structure is used for past tense. 

 

I could give you some examples:

 

但她是不愿叫人家看见的。

But she would rather not be seen by others. 

 

他是来帮忙的。

He's here to help us. 

 

是...的 is often used to emphasize a sentence component. I won't be surprised if people spontaneously assume the action has been completed, when we emphasize "how". But 是...的 is more broadly used. 

[pitanje]

thank you very mich, this helped!

Another question regarding the placement of 为什么

I know the Structure ist Subject + or is + Predicate

but what if I have additional information, like time or something else.

For example, do I have to say:

你为什么现在不能回家？

or is it also possible to say:

你现在为什么不能回家？

[Minotaur]

It depends on which word you want to emphasize. 

 

If you want to ask "Why not now?": 你为什么不能现在回家？Sounds more like a suggestion than a real question. 

If you want to ask "Why can't you?": 你现在为什么不能回家？

 

I assume you should put whatever information that you don't want to emphasize before "why".

你为什么现在不能回家？looks a bit unnatural, but people will get it. But generally, I think, it's better not to separate "why" and "not", unless "why" is at the beginning of the sentence.

 

I'm not 100% sure.

[pitanje]

that's funny because 你为什么现在不能回家？is the answer written in my book and 你现在为什么不能回家？is what I wrote before looking at the key.

[pitanje]

hello guys, I have another question.

when I write inside a notebook, like chinese pupils will do in school, where do I place all the Informations?

For example date, title, number of the exercise etc. eg. in which line, left or right aligned, how much space before/after any informations etc.

I want to write the following information: 2017年8月7日，第十二课（B 11）， number+title of the exercise.

Also I want to know the same for writing essays.

Thanks a lot for your help in advance.

[陳德聰]

As a rule of thumb, the word you want to focus goes on the right of the item that you use to focus, and the rest of the work is done by your intonation if there is room for ambiguity.

 

你為什麼現在不能回家

你現在為什麼不能回家

你為什麼不能現在回家

 

Can all be used, but they ask for different information.

 

Sorry can't answer your notebook question!

[pitanje]

thanks a lot! It is always frustrating for me, when my answer doesn't match the one of the key in my course book, because I never know if my answer is wrong and why, so I am happy that I found this place to ask these questions

[Messidor]

1)a. 他坐的出租车来办公室的。

   b. 他坐出租车来的办公室。

   c. 他坐出租车来办公室(的)。

   d. 他是坐出租车来办公室的。

   e. 他是坐出租车来的办公室。

I suppose it's better to choose (1c).

 

2) 我吃了2饭了1。

In this classical example, 了1 is usually taken as a sentence final particle (indicates a situation etc.) while 了2 is usually regarded as a marker of perfect aspect.

Aspect markers are usually attached to the verbs, eg. 在吃饭、吃着饭、写了本书、听过他的课.

 

[Messidor]

@陳德聰

a. 你為什麼現在不能回家

b. 你現在為什麼不能回家

c. 你為什麼不能現在回家

I don't think the differences between (a) and (b) are so strict. For if I put stress on 現在, I can use either to ask "why not now" ---- just like (c), since the less natural position of 現在 in (c) indicates that the time is most likely the focus. And without any obvious stress, (at least to my ears) both (a) and (b) are asking "why can't". 

But if the focus markers (eg. 是) are added as in

d. 你為什么是現在不能回家

e. 你為什么現在不能回的是家

(d) and (e) are asking for totally different information.

IMHO word order is a important way to construct or change the information structure of a sentence (eg. the focus), but they are not effective everywhere ( at least not so effective in (a-b))

 

no offense intended.

[陳德聰]

None taken.

 

If you read the question, you will see that it was a question specifically on the possible placement of 現在, so I provided three different placements of it in the same sentence as minimal pairs to illustrate all are correct after Minotaur's comments. The "they ask for different information" was more of a sidenote, and perhaps would have been better phrased as "they can ask for different information".

 

Edit:

Also I think we are agreeing that information structure in Mandarin isn't purely based on syntax?

[Messidor]

I know it's like a side note on Minotaur's discussion. So I wrote mine (though tedious) on your post : D    yes, "they can" is better than "they do"

 

PS:

I agree. Although I don't know your definition of "syntax" (or how you set its boundaries), I guess you're not that radical to use "syntax" to include pragmatics or discourse.

[陳德聰]

15 hours ago, Messidor said:

pragmatics or discourse

Maybe I'm out of date but are there linguists which do include those in syntax? Thought they were discrete fields.

[Messidor]

As far as I know they are still separate fields though the boundaries may be fuzzy, eg. the relationship between the word order and the topic/focus in Chinese languages.

The professors of paragmatics in my department take interest in criticizing some radicals for their stance that everything visible in a sentence is related to syntax and everything invisible is peripheral (or sth like that…can't remember clearly). I think some die-hard syntacticians have gone way too far.