NelsonK Posted September 19, 2017 at 01:36 AM Report Posted September 19, 2017 at 01:36 AM I swear I read about this somewhere, but I can't remember where and now I can't find it anywhere -- so I thought I'd ask. Are there cases where "classifier + noun" (no numeral) can mean essentially "down to the last noun"? As we might have said in English of an earlier era, "to a man"? I'll give an example from 紅高粱家族 by 莫言 where I think this is happening. The narrator here is talking about the sparrows that in late Fall/early Winter will come back to the bare trees in the evening and fall upon them en masse. 柳條青黃,赤裸裸下垂或上指,枝條上結滿麻雀。 To give my attempt at a rough translation: "The green-yellow willow branches, naked hanging down or pointing up, *to the last branch* laden with sparrows". Now my dictionaries say that 枝條 can also just be a two-character word for branch, and maybe the 枝 has come in here just because the 柳 is gone and a two-character word is more idiomatic and natural than just saying 條, but when I looked over this sentence, I felt like I had a memory of this "classifier + noun" meaning "down to the last noun" thing. Or maybe I just made up a fake grammatical construction that doesn't actually exist. Anyway, if anyone can offer some insight, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks a bunch. Quote
Publius Posted September 19, 2017 at 03:22 AM Report Posted September 19, 2017 at 03:22 AM Where is the classifier in that sentence? If 枝 is a classifier, what is 條? It is more empty than 枝. The meaning is so diluted that in Modern Standard Mandarin it cannot be used alone as a noun. 枝上結滿麻雀 ✔ 條上結滿麻雀 ✘ No, 枝條 is one word, formed by juxtaposing two morphemes that are synonymous or near-synonymous: 枝,木别生條也 + 條,小枝也. There is a special use of classifiers, namely reduplication, that does convey the meaning of "every", or "down to the last one" if you prefer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_classifier#Specialized_uses https://baike.baidu.com/item/量词#5_1 In which case, the noun is often omitted. 條條大路通羅馬 人人奮勇,個個爭先 綻放的花兒,朵朵嬌豔欲滴 I don't think a bare classifier + noun is even grammatical in Mandarin. (Though it is in Cantonese, e.g. 枝筆幾錢/條女好正/塊面黑晒) 3 Quote
Geiko Posted September 19, 2017 at 03:45 AM Report Posted September 19, 2017 at 03:45 AM 2 hours ago, NelsonK said: classifier + noun" (no numeral) can mean essentially "down to the last noun"? Maybe you mean noun + classifier? As in 馬匹, which means horses, or 車輛 for vehicles. Edit to add more examples: 人口 、麵條、書本 Quote
roddy Posted September 19, 2017 at 08:18 AM Report Posted September 19, 2017 at 08:18 AM 6 hours ago, NelsonK said: I felt like I had a memory of this "classifier + noun" meaning "down to the last noun" thing. I'd wager you're thinking of the reduplication Publius mentions. There's no need to read that sentence as anything other than "branches". Quote
NelsonK Posted September 19, 2017 at 11:16 AM Author Report Posted September 19, 2017 at 11:16 AM Thanks, Publius, Geiko and roddy. I guess I was just imagining things. 1 Quote
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